Who is really at fault in Mexico?

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Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
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"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Chivis
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In reply to this post by El Regio
Not the Narcos...surprised?  I say to F them to Hell one day and say they are not at fault the next?

Well sort of.  They surely are responsible for their actions.  But for the fault/cause? It is the corruption that is embedded in its politcal and structure of goverment that has always existed.  It is the government powers that cultivated a 60% class of poverty and illiterates and under educated, and POORLY educated generations of children.

But to put the finger on the exact horrific flaw, the BIG OOPS...Look to the government making a deal with the devil when the devil had power that was less than the government and manageable.  They agreed to allow certain passage thru Mx to the US.  they agreed to look the other way, the devil said " sure, and we will do so quietly, harming no innocents"  and it worked.  for a while.  Until the devil became so wealthy and powerful, divisions were made, which produced more devils.  A lo and behold with this wealth they could buy anything...government agencies, the media, polititians, entire municipalities...buy or kill...silver or lead.

then everything became so hopeless...
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
Buela trust me I blame them for their actions, I believe my comments reflect that. But ask yourself this, who are the narcos?
They are Mexicans, neighbors, brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. of mexican citizens. This has been brewing for a very very long time, and much of it is due to the culture as a whole. This corruption would not be possible if most of the people in Mexico were not complicit. Just look at how the narco culture has take off... narco corridos, narco clothes, etc.

You also mention the Govt., well they too are the neighbors, brothers, cousins, sisters, etc. of the Mexican people so once again it is Mexicans!
I wish all Mexicans could listen to the video and take it to hear to change their ways but I doubt that will ever happen.

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Chivis
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Ok...so you know we agree more often than not, and I do not disagree with you this time.  But allow me to tweek it a bit.  The word is complacent rather than complicit..IMO.

That said...we cannot talk about now.  One must go way back to when El Padrino ruled the land, that was the beginning of the deal with the devil.  Things were very different politically but resulting in the same mess.  People began having a "choice" only when PAN was sucessful in breaking the monoparty system.  As a little girl all I ever heard of was PRI, and itremained that way for decades later.  The people had no power, and today the people are complacent, but this structure was created long ago.

as for government and politicians being of the people...not so fast,  priviously, of CERTAIN class of people or people of CERTAIN fmailies.   and now,it includes people with  certain  "connections"

You are correct defining the narcos as you have.  But one can define any thug or lawbreaker, rapist, baby killers, drug user, thief, extortionist, the same, they come from a society of people, same as anywhere.

I will say this.  Mexicans do not help others and they don't like to get involved.  its see-hear-speak no evil, while sitting in the midst of hell.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
I agree and I believe we are in agreement on this issue as well.
Perhaps you misunderstood my pov.

I didn't say politicians were "for the people", but rather that "they are the people". They are us, same as us, they are nothing special. If they are corrupt it is because that is how many were brought up. I see this in Monterrey with family and friends, everything is a bribe.
I had a friend who had a meat market and rather than keep up to code and standards he bribed the inspector. Also rather than pay a business tax, he paid the auditor to list him as a simple home and not a business.
They get pulled over and they pay the transito, they want to work as taxis and they pay for their permits. They want to own a bus and enter the union, they pay the union boss a fee... I believe that attitude, that culture of corruption is what has been feeding this beast until it has gotten to big to ignore and now they don't like it. Yet to me, it is them who have been feeding it all these years. No crees?

I say that it starts at the bottom and goes all the way up.

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Chivis
Administrator
Sorry for the delay I had to work non stop today.  I have an exciting event for my disabled kids next week from Piedras to Saltillo...anyway..done!

No I did not misunderstand your point and I agree with it, but I separated today from the one party PRI rule, whereas there was the corruption such as kickbacks etc, but not to the extent today.   my point of the one party system was that they were not from the " people"  or of the "people"  but from connected or wealthy families.  Now they really do not have to be, as long as they play the game like the former gov from my state, now the PRI Party National Party.  How does a teacher from humble beginnings a few years later has 5-7M USD homes in Vail, San ANtonio, Saltillo (massive home) private jets etc.  this was my point.  Before when the deal was made with the devil, the PRI powerful thought it was a pragmatic, benign decision, clearly they never anticipated the power and wealth that org crime gangs would one day have, nor the number of gangs going head to head in outright wars that effected innocents and mexican society in such distructive ways.

I think we agree.  or close enough
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

imjustagirl
I was just telling a friend about you this morning.  You are a fount of knowledge and information, and are much respected and appreciated.  I need Mexican political history lessons, not from American, or for that matter Mexican, texts. I would rather learn the truth from someone as candid as yourself.
I have always noted that nothing is as it seems in Mexico.  The humble people one converses with do not feel confident in asserting their true opinions, and it is almost as if an underground "current" of dissatisfaction looms near the surface, but can never gain the toehold it needs to prosper into a demand to be heard.
I have supposed for a long time that it is because of a lack of funds, no ability to protect oneself, literally and figuratively, and to some extent a complacency that seems ingrained. I have seen subterfuge in action, but realize as well as its cohorts that it only satisfies an immediate internal need, a validation. Real power is possible, as the Mexican people are as diligent, intelligent, resilient as any people anywhere.
How could the lower income "earthy" people of Mexico ever gain power?  What would it take for them to truly be heard? How could they ever believe that there is a better way?
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Chivis
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Hola...Just-A-Girl...

I am not sure if you are speaking of me or Regio, so I will say thank you from both of us, JAJAJA  we think a lot a like anyway.  (great minds?-jeje) Regio gets attacked but is very bright and insightful.

The people of Mexico have been a frustration and confusion to me.  On one hand the Mexican cultura is one of happy, warm, giving,caring, family oriented folks.  Even during the so called Drug War Mexicans managed to sit at the top or near top of those global polls who rate and determine those types of things such as " The Happiest People on Earth".  A bit ironic wouldn't you say?  A nod to genetic transgression perhaps.

I have asserted myself in conversations with Mexican friends, staff and assciates in attempting to engage in Narco conversation.  If falls flat.  I become aggitated and have no shyness in asking what the hell is wrong with them, don't they care?  Mostly I get two answers; resignation, and fear.  MXs feel powerless and I have heard more than once a comment that they are praying for the US to come and save Mx.  I have a 19 Y/R grandson frist year college and I ask why should my grandson go fight the war that MXs will not?  Fries my behind to say the least, I believe we can help by amping up training, advisors on the ground, equipment etc and we must include Guate and CA as a whole because as bad as Mx is, is is the precursor to real hell south of its border.

The other issue is fear.  No, terror is the word.  No one trust anyone even their friends.  They dare not speak against cartels and unknowingly offend or cross one.  In my foundation apx 50% of my staff have close family connections to cartels.  Yesterday I had a staff meeting on skype for 3 hrs, three locations discussing a project and one staff member cam in late, she had no clue I had the web cam on as I usully do not unless I am using the whiteboard.  I asked if anyone saw the massive amount of weapons discovered near Monclova.  No one had but Miss "late" actually was snickering I could tell and rolling her eyes.  She was pretty shocked to discover I could see her.   and she has family in Monclova and Torreon.  So if an intelligent, university educated, tri-lingual person could react like that, that sure gives me little hope.  I do what I can, and speak pretty freely.  WHen one is old you can get away with more.  One of the few benefits of being a Buela.  jaja

I do agree real power is possible.  MXs need a leader.  I am hoping Sicilia is the leader as long as he does not become to radical.  I supported his efforts because he made it clear it was not the intervention he opposed it was the the " No Plan" attack taken by the Calderon Administration.  and I agree.  I never thought the Catch the Capo could be effective.  The top and bottom really matters little long term, it is the contractors, the middle layer of cartel structure that needs to be attacked and in mass.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
Thanks Buela but Im sure she was referring to you.

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

NobleAngel
In reply to this post by Chivis
I assure that the money is in fact gods almighty and that they created a plan to steal from the trusts/moneys.  We will collect soon.  A battle was won with Lucif. by a little girl around 1973 and a group of old ladies (including Barb Bush ) tricked him..lied to him played tricks on him. and that is what we have seen for years. In 2007-2008 another battle was won but now she was a grown woman .. she has been battleling since and is the target of these woman and Bush/Williams etc. they have used games for people now to hear her words but soon the angel girl will be heard and understood.. she want peace and has been given a plan to share with those who walk away and quit attacking her.  Those who continue will suffer as they have done to her and her loved ones.. they have tried to punish the godly your street helps them.  great motive to show truth.. and where the moneys should really go and how it should/can be used properly without violence.. Listen and you will hear..
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

MANO
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Llorando se fue, la que algun dia me hizo llorar.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
In reply to this post by NobleAngel
What are you smoking? pass it...

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Capjim
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
and your not on topic.... =D

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Queen Regia
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

Chivis
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In reply to this post by MANO
BOONDOCKS SAINTS...

Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men


.
lamanonegra wrote
The indifference of good men.
A great film..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS5aym1Hznw

and I do very well remember Kitty Genovese
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
DD
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

DD
Administrator
In reply to this post by El Regio
"The indifference of a few good men".  "Complacency", "Complicity", "Corruption" are all answers that are well thought out and are true.  But how does a society composed of basically good honest people become those things?  
I am a gringo so I know my opinions won't account for much for some of the participants in this forum.  But in the 15 + years I have lived here I have read a lot of history of MX and about its leaders and its people.  I think another word needs to be added to the 3 "C"s above, and that is impotence.  Now before all you machismos get mad, I am not talking about erectile disfunction.  I am talking about some other definitions in the dictionary--powerlessness; the lacking of power; and the voicelessness of those living in situations of hopelessness.  I think this is ingrained in Mexico's culture.
For nearly 400 years Mexico was ruled in a dictatorial fashion by other countries and military dictators.  The people had no say.  Then after the revolution the "Powers that be" that took control of the government entered into arrangements with the military, unions, and even "The Church".  The eventual result was PRI, an all powerful political party that controlled every aspect of government and to a large extent most aspects of peoples lives for over 70 years.  For  those several centuries people were told what to do, what to think, and who to vote for.
The barely 10 year old fledgling democracy has given the people the opportunity to think for themselves and make changes themselves. Empowering themselves and overcoming that cultural impotence that has been imbedded for so long.
I know it is a long answer, but maybe it helps us look at a bigger picture.
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Who is really at fault in Mexico?

El Regio
Great post DD and your opinion counts very much, everybody's does.
You speak some truth, under a dictatorship or foreign occupation Mexico thrived (for some at least). Perhaps that is the solution.

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.