Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
17 messages Options
303
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

303
First, can someone please outline how the battle lines are forming in Tijuana? Who is the CTNG? How does it all work in that city? Who is fighting who? I think I have an idea, but this forum is amazing at just putting it out there in lay mens terms for people to understand.

Second, I know the Trevinos make up the CDN, but how did they come about? And what zetas went with them and who stayed?

I like knowing as best I can who is with who. Etc.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Chivis
Administrator
.  We have a search bar on mainboard and forum.  We have thousands of informative posts going back to 2009.  use key words "Trevinos" "Zetas" CDN  o El Cartel del Noreste or  Zetas Vieja Escuela or old school Zetas

as for CTNG

they are a group comprised of CJNG (cartel jalisco new generation) and what is left of the once powerful Arellano Felix Cartel of Tijuana.  CAF-AFO

In the years of 2008-2010 AFO aka CAF fought against Sinaloa in one of the bloodiest long, and deadly drug wars Mexico had experienced. by the end of 2014 Suffering key arrests, deaths, betrayals and transitions CAF was limping on one leg and using a broken crutch.  CJNG on the other hand was a rising power.  Led by Mencho, who calculated it would not be profitable to engage in fighting the powerhouse cartel,  Sinaloa,  for a piece of their dominant presence in the U.S. market.  In a brilliant move he took to other global markets and became very wealthy very fast.  CJNG is comprised of a core group of  former military special forces.  Mencho has the most powerful military grade weapons of any Mexican cartel.  He was then ready to take on Sinaloa.  Especially since the sinaloans were somewhat weakened and having problematic discord.  Menco  determined the best course was to allied with what was left of CAF,  to get key into Tijuana plaza to push drugs into the west coast of the united states and set a course that he is still on. That alliance produced the CTNG group.  

Future event:  CJNG will annihilate CAF and take TJ at some point.  There is no loyalty unless you are a blood relation, everyone else is expendable.  and that includes the old the young the innocent.

all those bodies in Boca del Rio Veracruz who cjng called Zetas we just props...all were innocents.  Brutal crew, brutal master.  and I pray he is stopped. ... that is it at the core, but of course it is much more comolcated than tht/

Use the search so much good stuff and don't go right to the news stuff, if you want to learn go back a bit in time and read forward.  you will not be bored.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

deelucky1
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

1966tinman
In reply to this post by 303
The " Zetas " that were killed in Veracruz were turned over to the CJNG by law enforcement authorities after they were threatened with death for collaborating with them  . Most  BB readers believe that somehow cartel sicarios personally go round up their victims but Mexican law enforcement are usually given that task .  If you were a cartel member would you voluntarily surrender to a rival cartel knowing you were going to probably face an horrible death ? Hell no .  When one calls drug violence victims " innocent " it is strictly a question of whether or not the the victim was involved in criminal activities .  Most of the victims in the Mexican drug violence are involved in the drug trade to some extent . Very rarely you will have a child or an innocent bystander get caught in the crossfire , but for the most part , a lot of the victims deserved what they got for being in a violent trade .  I invite any BB reader to come to Mexico and find out the " truth ' about what is happening here instead of relying on BS and propaganda .
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

DonTaquero
Not only believe "that somehow cartel sicarios personally go round up their victims" but seen it too. In what state in Mexico do you live? I can tell you that in the northwest of Mexico, the sicarios actually do that. And many of the comments here come from actually witnessing the beat of this war. Cartels are very sensitive, so I do apologize if I offend somebody, it is not my intention. But you appear to have an attitude that "is not that bad, if someone is killed is because they deserve it". And there are a lot of innocents killed, even babies and unborn babies. And I do not denied that many corrupt police officers participate in "levantamientos", but my point is, Sicarios go right to the door and they do not knock, they just pick up, or execute right there and then.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by 1966tinman
you are wrong about BDR...I researched the background of the people.  including a kid buying feed for his chickens.  they were props which the Attoy general finally conceded to and the entire police department was fired.

 you are incorrect in saying most people deserve what they get. the easiest way to collect people to be used as props, send a message etc is to use innocents.  they comply with orders by police.  

Not only do I know first hand, my office parking lot was involved with two balaceras, and friends of mine have been kidnapped and extorted, one had his two teen aged sons kidnapped, one found when neighbors called about a safe house having suspicious activities, the other kid a 13 year old was never found.  My friend could not afford the hike in piso he left the city and his business to move his family to safety.  I was stopped at a zeta blockade in coahuila, it is one incident I probably will never speak about what happened.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by DonTaquero
agree.  this has been done a lot in mich especially targeting young indigenous boys/men  busting trhough the door
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Mexico-Watcher
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by 1966tinman
1966tinman wrote
The " Zetas " that were killed in Veracruz were turned over to the CJNG by law enforcement authorities after they were threatened with death for collaborating with them  . Most  BB readers believe that somehow cartel sicarios personally go round up their victims but Mexican law enforcement are usually given that task .  If you were a cartel member would you voluntarily surrender to a rival cartel knowing you were going to probably face an horrible death ? Hell no .  When one calls drug violence victims " innocent " it is strictly a question of whether or not the the victim was involved in criminal activities .  Most of the victims in the Mexican drug violence are involved in the drug trade to some extent . Very rarely you will have a child or an innocent bystander get caught in the crossfire , but for the most part , a lot of the victims deserved what they got for being in a violent trade .  I invite any BB reader to come to Mexico and find out the " truth ' about what is happening here instead of relying on BS and propaganda .
Tinman, could you write more on this topic of law enforcement collaborating with narco cartels in of the roundup and eventual torture, and murder of (truckloads) of victims.  Like , from start to finish, how does Rio Massacre  of truckload f victims come about?  

Feel free to speculate about the "who" (kinds of people involved), why, how, logistics, equipment, choice of murder locale, etc.  Do you think the killers are in a drugged state?  Are women involved in killing, are their supervisors in attendance,  etc, etc, etc?
 
So in a nutshell, could you, please, sketch out like report, story or movie ( of course, in "sanitized" fashion so as not to endanger anyone)?

Of course, the fact that law enforcement and the military get involved in homicidal criminality is an established historical fact worldwide ( Holocaust, Armenia genocide circa 1914, Wounded Knee , Rape of Nanking China1930s, and many events throughout Mexican history).  However, the Del Rio, Veracruz massacre has certain modern day features that make it especially interesting to me.  

I am sure others here on Borderland Beat will be interested in what you have to say...  

Please not feel pressured, whatever you write will be higly appreciated.

If we are lucky, others with factual knowledge, here on BB, might want to contribute to what you have to say.... and thereby produce a really educational thread of great value.  

Gracias, amigo.
Mexico-Watcher

P.S. Go here to refresh your memory, for the BB story of massacre with pictures.
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/09/images-of-boca-del-rio-massacre.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

1966tinman
@Mexico Watcher
I think too many of these bleeding heart human rights types  try to perpetuate this " a lot of innocent people are the victims " scenario when in fact I can tell you that is not the case . For example , the 43 normalista students in Iguala were Marxist hooligans terrorizing innocent civilians by hijacking buses , assaulting merchants , and torching businesses , yet you have sympathizers portraying them as some " saints " and disseminating anti-government propaganda to capitalize on their deaths . Like the majority of  law abiding Mexican citizens  I applaud the tough tactics and celebrate their disappearances and deaths as a warning to other terrorist elements who want to wage war against the  Mexican  state and our Law and Order   society . I have no sympathy for these criminals . The same goes for all of those disappeared criminals in Allende who were done in by their own Zeta cartel .  I personally know some of the victims who saw nothing wrong with extorting , robbing , and murdering their neighbors all across the northern part of Coahuila . Too bad they choose the wrong Zeta faction to belong to . No one that I've spoken to in the region really gives a damn whether they ever find out their fate or not  .   I have contacts with government officials , military and police forces in Mexico , and have family in high positions in the PRI so I can easily exchange information on all of these  undesirable elements . The municipal police in most of Veracruz did in fact turn over hundreds of Zetas to the so called Matazetas for execution during the 2011-2013 even after the police forces were sometimes disbanded and replaced by other security elements  . Mexican citizens are tired of the human rights groups portraying criminals as victims of extrajudicial killings when we are engaged in a life or death struggle with the criminal organizations and the corruption that protects their activities .  
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Chivis
Administrator
This post was updated on .
sorry tinman, your view is ignorant.  but you are entitled.  I would correct you from my experience of living in Mexico and working with situations in 13 states of mexico over 13 years, but I strongly feel I would be wasting my time. Normalists have a rich and long history, the taking  of buses is actually conducted with the begrudging acceptance of the bus companies because the buses are returned in good condition and never Hijacked while in use.  But there is much more to the story.  You know nothing about five springs massacre which allende was the primary target.  other than what you read.  I was there.  The people targeted already fled to the U.S. and cut sweet deals with DEA and gov.  The people killed were in a frenzy by frustrated Zetas, killing  relatives, friends and anyone else around in the path.  

so I will leave it there.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

el Jesse James
Chivis, I dont know if you remember the article or not, but I believe you were the one who published it, "The Elite Mercenaries". Do you remember this article? In it, a former Marine details the Tony Tormenta raid, talks about his buddies snuffing Arturo, and the article goes on to talk about this same Marine ending up as a Zeta sicario who got killed in a Zeta training camp raid..? El Rambo I believe was his alias. Rambo made the claim in that article that Los Matazetas were actually a band of Marines with possible/probable state sanctioning..?? So are these the very same people who make up CJNG today or what? Because one of their vids had the banner "Los Guerreros del CJNG"... actually thats the very video mentioned by Rambo, that he recognized the dude talking... If those claims are true, then this group is every bit as hardcore as Zeta Viejos.. IMO. If theyre still alive that is..

BTW, any news on RCQ lately? Things seem quiet.. whats going on with Mayo and RCQ?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Chivis
Administrator
Hola

Yes, the article was translated by Valor and can be found using this link http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2013/07/the-elite-mercenaries.html

As for CJNG and MataZetas they are one in the same.  Matazetas in the beginning were the core group of enforcers and were former Elite military and special forces.  Mencho made the conscious plan to always have a core group of highly trained military to spearhead his enforcer groups.  But Mexican military, I am not aware if any were recruited from  other nations.  Mencho designed his "force"  after special forces, and supplies them with military grade weapons.

As for RCQ...  He has been very busy.    As soon as RCQ was freed he allied with Mencho.  They together were able to gain control of most of Mich.  And now they have made agreements with a number of former foes to capitalize on the weakened Sinaloa cartel and gain inroads into Sinaloa territory.  

The uptick of violence since last spring, in Juarez is RCQ giving support to Linea who is fighting  Los Mexicales cell (mainly an enforcer cell but are not restricted to murder in practicing their criminality), who operate for Sinaloa in Juarez (comprised of Mexican-Americans).

I personally see signs that RCQ was not alone in supporting Linea against the Sinaloa Cell in Juarez.

As for Mayo and RCQ...I wish I had a good sense of it.  But if there was a partnership then that would mean Mayo turned against Chapo, and I don't see that happening.

Paz...
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Tully
In reply to this post by 1966tinman
I have family in high positions in the PRI.

Nuff said.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Siskiyou_Kid
Good catch.

Tinman yearns for a return of the guerra sucia, where the PRI disappeared anybody who threatened their hegemony and who partnered with people in this system who eventually came to run what we now call cartels in Mexico.

It is no coincidence that the guerra sucia was waged heavily in Guerrero, which had a long history of grass roots opposition  [as it's name implies], so when people searched  for the normalistas, the hundreds of fosas that were found are part of history of killing that is long and horrific.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tully
too bad you took your other comment down about iguala!  It was spot on perfect IMO
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Mexico-Watcher
In reply to this post by 1966tinman
Tinman: Ola Tinman:  I appreciate your experiences and perspectives in response to my question.  It seems that there are very different perspectives on the topic at hand.  This kind of just makes the topic more fascinating to me.
 
Gracias, amigo
Mexico-Watcher


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Want to clarify situation with these two cartels/plazas

Synecdoche
In reply to this post by 1966tinman
Tinman what is your stance on kidnapping rings for profit?  A large portion of those victims are completely "innocent," and are only targeted because them or their families might/have money.  How would YOU rationalize and project blame onto victims in this case?