Top cartel leaders paid informants?

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DD
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Top cartel leaders paid informants?

DD
I am not sure yet what the implications of news that top leaders of the cartels are paid informants of the FBI and DEA. According to a story by the LA Times, Kenneth Melson, head of ATF told a congressional committee behind closed doors that cartel suspects tracked by his agents were paid informers of the DEA and FBI.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2011/07/atf-agents-informants-dea-fbi-drug-war-guns.html

Somehow it doesn't surprise me the right had doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

One irony pointed out in the story that that not thought about before is apparently the US govt. has been supplying arms to the cartels to fight the Mx.govt. through "Fast and Furious" at the same time it is supplying arms through the "Merida Initiative" to Mx govt to fight the cartels.  Is the world one big circus or what?
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Top cartel leaders paid informants?

Havana
Oh man, an angle I never entertained. Intriguing? Those little details lost in the confusion of too many cooks in the kitchen. Wow!  Thanks for the link
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Re: Top cartel leaders paid informants?

Chivis
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In reply to this post by DD
Thanks for this DD.

I saw a few articles written last week and I lean more towards it is fact.
In my mind something about the way  Mamito spoke of the US government
made me think he may be involved.  I know it sounds crazy.  

Was he trained in the US?  I haven't looked it up to refresh my memory.
But I think there may be something to it..

BTW...where the hell is Barbie/Edgar?
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
jp
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Re: Top cartel leaders paid informants?

jp
IMO this operation F&F has been a set up to limit the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution and severely
Limit gun sales in the US. As far as cartel leaders being informants it seem unlikely. Lower level cartel members
I can believe would turn. As far as Mamito is concerned he may be saying what he is being told to say.That's the politics part. And besides how long will he be caught?
The Meridia deal is suspect at best. It is known that weapons sold to the Mexican Govt. seem to disappear do to corrupt officials possibly on both sides.
That said there are many good people doing the good work on both sides we should say a prayer for all of them.
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Re: Top cartel leaders paid informants?

El Regio
In reply to this post by Chivis
Yes El Mamito was trained at Fort Benning Georgia at the School of the Americas.
"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: Top cartel leaders paid informants?

ArmChairIntellect
This post was updated on .
We always want to see a conspiracy, we want to believe someone running the show or calling the shots.  When the answer is too complex or something we don't want to believe we turn it in to a conspiracy.  Our brain is hardwired to do this.  It was at one point in our history the only way we could figure anything out.  Patterns are how the brain can associate things.  When there is no pattern we will create one, this is a product of sensory integration, how we perceive the world.   Conspiracies do happen just not as frequently as it may seems.
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Re: Top cartel leaders paid informants?

el Spaceio
In reply to this post by DD
CIA-FBI-DEA never share informant and operation info to protect informants and the operations. everyone is independently hunting the same general targets in their own way with their own sources just like Mexico is doing now hunting the cartels.

as for leaders being informants and sweet deals because he was an informants. yea they can get a sweet deal long as they don't kill anyone. just look at what happen to FBI informant/mob boss's Whitey Bulger and Stephen "The Rifleman" Flemmi. Stephen been in prison for years and Whitey Bulger who was recently captured was on the FBI 10 most wanted for 16 years. its was a very embarrassing situation for the FBI to have top level informants killing people. even the FBI agent John Connolly who handled them was hung out to dry and received alot of time in Federal Prison.
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Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by DD
By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau
 
July 17, 2011
Reporting from Washington—

Congressional investigators probing the controversial "Fast and Furious" anti-gun-trafficking operation on the border with Mexico believe at least six Mexican drug cartel figures involved in gun smuggling also were paid FBI informants, officials said Saturday.


The investigators have asked the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration for details about the alleged informants, as well as why agents at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the Fast and Furious operation, were not told about them.

The development raises further doubts about the now-shuttered program, which was created in November 2009 in an effort to track guns across the border and unravel the cartels' gun smuggling networks. The gun tracing largely failed, however, and hundreds of weapons purchased in U.S. shops later were found at crime scenes in Mexico.

read more:  http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cartel-guns-20110717,0,6972222.story
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

Bender
Of course bosses & soldiers alike are paid informants! It's not new anywhere in the world of O.C.  It all depends what you have to offer. It's a tactical move...  
About Carrillo , I do believe he has bowed out. & he would be smart to do so. He sees the writing on the wall. Just like TJ, his territory is a sinaloan proxy. Now w/ the Z/ LL....things could change. But I think the Viceroy is out.   My opinion ....
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

ArmChairIntellect
It certainly seems that CFO is hurting, all those reports about Carrillo retiring, doesn't seem too far fetched.  A lot has changed in the past four years.  I read an interesting article about how when PAN took over it shook up the entire underworld in Mexico.  All of a sudden there were a lot more people to pay off, it changed the way things were done in Mexico as far as corruption and dealing with one party system.  Buela do you have the number of deaths in Juarez?  Is it still declining?    
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

MANO
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

J
Whats your take on Vicente Fuentes being retired? I'm kinda on the fence, I thought he was the only thing holding it all together, and the mantas are addressed directly to him sometimes. However, there does seem to be some sort of confusion behind the scenes as far the Juarez cartel goes, and it appears (to me) that Linea and Aztecas are now leading the cartel instead of serving it, but I don't know, this is just speculation.
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

Guerro
If history repeats itself J. La linea and los Aztecas will split from el cartel de Juarez and start fighting internally like the Gulf/Zetas. Its a matter of time
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArmChairIntellect
ACI..

As for the number of deaths in Juarez...don't believe the hype about drastic reductions.  I don't believe it, those much touted figures that had strong legs in the world press were shit, their comparatives were laughable at best, for ex.  taking the worse month in 2010 against the best month in 2011 etc.  I don't trust Mx numbers, and until they explain their calculation standards( Formats, Data Acquisitions, deviations etc)  I will not buy it.   but if you insist:

to June 1st "official" Fed Justice Count is apx 1330 from Jan

I will admit it seems lower than last year and honestly I predicted it would be a bloody record breaking year, looks like I will be wrong on that account, which is a good thing.  But to say it is by far less I am not buying.  Mty is now the hot spot and attention has diverted there.

Last week Juarez had a day of 21 dead, including 3 hospital staff and a 12 y/o boy chased into a building; so obviously  his murder was intentional...

you decide
 
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

MANO
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Re: Congressional probes reveal at least 6 cartel figures of fast/furious were pd informants

Chivis
Administrator
Las Dunas?  

In your op: in Juarez...more-less-same?
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please