Savagery

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Savagery

Macy
I have been following BB now a long time and have read a few of the books on the drug violence in Mexico. I would never claim to be an expert and no much about the goings on but what really shocks me to the core is the level of violence used on other human beings. I am from Ireland and we have our own drug problem but on a miniscule scale compared to that in Mexico. It always fascinated though what made Mexican people turn to such savagery over drug money. Most of the killings here are by gunshot but what I've read what they do to each other in Mexico makes you wonder about the human race and how could you do this to a fellow man or woman (or children).

Does anyone have any insight as to what they think can turn a person into such a savage.

Apologies for not registering sooner but don't think I could contribute much as I get my news from here.
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Re: Savagery

ElJimbo
Um, Ireland has been just as bad. Look up the Shankhill butchers or the IRA nailing snitches to the floor. Human nature can be extremely dark and brutal where ever on this planet we are.
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Re: Savagery

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Macy
This is only my opinion Macy, but it has been developed over the years finding a common element.

Drugs and repetitive acts

There may be some bloodthirsty maniacs that become narco enforcers, and  that would be such in any walk of life if the opportunity presented itself, like those in any country.  I dare say the US has more of these monsters than any place on earth.

BUT, because the mindset with enforcers is war (narco sicarios) "you are the enemy, I must kill you to preserve my livelihood and our group" but almost all sicarios that kill up close and personal such as decaps, do so under the influence of drugs.  If you read or watch the movie El SIcario, he takes one through the first killings.

It is not a cultural thing, we Mexicans are not savages, remember only a tiny, almost nil, amount of the population are these types of brutal killers.  I always say the 98% of the population held hostage by the malevolent 2%, but the types of killer you are asking about are a fraction of that 2%

I hope this gives you perspective
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
JMB
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Re: Savagery

JMB
In reply to this post by Macy
Honestly?
1. It's because they get a kick out of it.
2. To "one up" the other guys
3. Because they believe whatever they are told to do, the person did something to deserve it.
4. The environment is optimal for sociopaths.
5. It is allowed ... due to a weak judicial system, corrupt authorities, and an apathetic populace.

I'd gamble what happened in Ireland happened before you were born.  It's hard to explain an almost animalistic mentality to those who were not born and raised in such a infectious environment.  
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Re: Savagery

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Macy
macy the video and book is "El Sciario Room 164"
by the late Charles Bowden

I direct you to the first few chapters that deal with this. also on youtube

and this infamous video also depicts cocaine courage, showing fistfuls of coke taken from a large bag..

this is narrated by Charles Bowden



 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Savagery

final sleep
In reply to this post by Macy
It's dope and surroundings/atmosphere, it can kill your feelings very well and then you're in the game killing someone without feelings.

Don't worry, whatever people here says, you can sleep well there in your home in Ireland, with drugs what you have.

It's not only drugs.
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Re: Savagery

tuSancho
In reply to this post by Macy
Anyone coming from a different, particularly non-spanish/latin, country with a lineage and heritage different than that origin has a hard time wrapping their head around what takes place in Mexico, these days.

IMHO, everything boils down to excessive greed by those that have acquired money and power over time.  In reality, from the Grita, to the Revolution, to today, power and money have been retained by an elite.  In Mexico, everything has a work-around.  There is so much to know about the regionalism, nepotism and every other kind of bad 'ism' exists in a perverted state in Mexico.  The exercise of control has always come through force in Mexico... never by democracy.  Democracy has no roots in Mexico; they have no Magna Carta.  Since Cortez, and the Aztecs for that matter, power flows from the top and always through caudillos and caciques.  This is the history, society and culture of Mexico at its core = greed and force.

So through centuries, and growing exponentially, the perverted state of Mexico has reached it's most recent peak.  And it seems to keep peaking.

Today, the caudillos and caciques are politicians and plaza bosses.  And, because corruption from greed has crippled an undemocratic nation every struggle of any kind is settled by force, either potential or actual.

The desperation and lack of opportunity among a huge percentage of the population leads them to find means of support - tortillas on the table - by taking work wherever they can find it.  And since the racists to the north are doing everything possible to keep Mexicans in Mexico since 9-11 the relief valve of crossing the frontera is almost a dead option.  So what to do?  Take the offer (or threat) to work for a gang.

What do gangs do?  First, they treat their halcones and sicarios like members of US Mexican Mafia - once in no out.  Then like pimps do with prostitutes (which is a collateral allied enterprise for gangs, too) the halcones and sicarios are given drugs and when life is miserable the drugs are an escape.

For those at the top, ni modo, they have always had the ability to ignore those below.  After all, the elite cannot show weakness or lack of power through compassion... that is not part of the culture of greed and power.  They leave that to the opium of the masses (ie church) Humans are like railroad ties... there are millions and all can be replaced with another, if needed, to keep the train rolling.

Mexico is not guided nor maintained civilly by law.  There are many many laws, but they are only there to be used as devices by those who have power over others.  This is the case from the village level to Los Pinos.  They are not used to provide justice.  Quite the opposite.  Look at the amazing weaving between using the law and acting in spite of it with Dr Mireles.  An illegally appointed viceroy Castillo was dispatched and without legal authority had Mireles arrested by using legal institutions, illegally.  Where is Mirales now, and how much longer will it take the system illegally applied to finally be determined illegal.  It doesn't matter... Mireles has been put in the corner, on ice, for as long as they can get away with it.  Force.

So with all of these influences, frosted with a thick layer of the glamour portrayed from corridos to diamond crusted .45s, it is amazing the social insanity in Mexico is not worse than it is.  Imagine all of the real serious mental health issues that exist in Mexico from the trauma for the past sextenios since Calderon's.  Dead children and other family, missing children and other family, seeing excessive violence, hearing narco-corridos with undeveloped brains, heads cut off on youtube, and on and on.  Talk about post-tramatic syndrome... how about ongoing-constant-tramatic syndrome.  That is daily life in Mexico.

To me the new normal in Mexico is no normal.  Corruption spawned from greed and historical development is a masticated cancer that the government, even if it wanted to, will not control for generation(s).  In fact the struggle will be for the Mexico to survive the overly powerful cartels which are now actually governing Mexico.  There is no green zone like there was in Baghdad.  No where is safe at the moment.

When coming from society and institutions evolving from England, particularly a colonial nation rather than a conquered one, it is hard to have the mind moderate and justify what seems so natural in Mexico today.

I hope for Mexican youth - there's a lot! - and an eventual Mexican Spring.  The everyday Mexican, fulano, is just like everyone everywhere - on the whole, great people.

PD - and I didn't mention anything about the influence of the church.  The recent Tuta video saying he will answer to God shows how that works.  Play hocus pocus catholic style - go in the little booth, fess up, get wrists slapped, pick up litter for two weeks, and God will accept you (after the monedas in the plate).  And don't worry about those flying bullets... just wear an escapulario!  
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Re: Savagery

elcienporcien
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Re: Savagery

canadiana
Administrator
In reply to this post by tuSancho
Well said TuSancho.You explained a lot.Well at least the greed is shared in the Mexican narco world.I cant see them doing that in 1st world countries.They are mostly independents and each man for himself but guess you cant get away with that in Mexico,you even have to pay a Tax called Piso.
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Re: Savagery

Macy
In reply to this post by tuSancho
tuSancho and Chivas, thank you for some great insight and your thoughts. Please understand I am not saying all Mexican people are savages. Like any country where there is conflict it is always the minority that ruin it for the rest.

Yes in Ireland during the troubles there was some terrible things done to people but what I'm referring to when I say savagery is the video's that have come from the cartels. For example the chainsaw one, cutting off of fingers and then beheading, beating to death with a plank etc. This is what I'm referring to.

Some of the people doing this actually look like they are enjoying it!!!!!

I suppose like anything when money is involved people are capable of anything.

Thank you everyone for your input and please understand I don't claim to be an expert on what is going on, I am looking from the outside in so that is why I asked the question. I don't want to offend anyone.
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Re: Savagery

deelucky1
In reply to this post by Macy
I can never figure it out myself i have family that i have seen whith my own eyes that they get so deep in this drug organization that they make them kill there own brothers very sad.but money is root of all evil as they say
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Re: Savagery

El?2012
In reply to this post by Macy
It's addicting, just like the coke, and the pussy (I only say that because it's not the "women" it's the pussy that is addicting) and the "cool shit" guns etc.. When you can kill someone in broad daylight and stop on the way home to pick up tortillas for the wife with blood spatter still on your vest and nobody says a damn thing, you feel like God, you BECOME God. That's all it is. Theres something very intimate about taking life, they just cease to exist, you start feeling like you give life, and you taketh it away, you are the one who decides who lives and dies, all with the squeeze of your little finger. Say what you will but that IS power, and it creates a God complex.
Libertad y paz en Michoacán!!
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Re: Savagery

Macy
Thanks for that EL?2012. Yeah I'm sure it does make you feel God like pulling a trigger and killing someone and nobody challenging you for doing it. I'm sure when your coked up its easy enough to shoot someone.

What gets me is the beheadings, that is so up close and personal and you know you are putting the person through unbelievable pain were as when using a gun its over in a split second.

Its the sicario's that torture and behead that I can't understand how they do that.
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Re: Savagery

Bjeff
Influence by drugs has been mentioned, but there has been postings here before on interviews with former hitmen saying they were more or less forced to do savage kills. I cannot find the interview I was thinking of right now unfortunately.

There are probably all kinds of reasons, but the power of mass suggestion within gang mentality is a brutal force.
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Re: Savagery

deelucky1
In reply to this post by deelucky1
lots of these sicarios dont come from big citys they dont have family meetings  or  birthday cakes they come from poor broken families they ask themseleves why them for so long.then one day somebody in a brand new fancy truck arrives and proposes a opportunity.
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Re: Savagery

Rubbertoe
In reply to this post by Macy
The is far, far from being exclusively a Mexican phenomena. Humans have always been violent. Throughout recorded history and archelolgical evidence you will find beheadings, skinning, dissection, torture.  nothing new. There has been more of this sort of savage stuff in the name of religion than drugs. Less in an egalitarian society than hierarchial. The evil triad: Power, Influence and Control.

And today, when someone farts, it can be international news in seconds, magnifying the effect and creating the illusion of pervasiveness. Couple this with an apparent fascination humans have with other's pain, and the quest for advertising dollars and you have gasoline and a match.

Personally I weep for the children and innocents whose quest is a roof over their head, safety for their family , and food on the table.
JMB
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Re: Savagery

JMB
In reply to this post by Macy
It's really as simple as "because they can".  Mexico is like Somalia. There's a bunch of warlords controlling the Country. No one really cares, not even the so-called authorities.

It's all for some "bling".
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Re: Savagery

final sleep
In reply to this post by Rubbertoe
Rubbertoe wrote
The is far, far from being exclusively a Mexican phenomena. Humans have always been violent. Throughout recorded history and archelolgical evidence you will find beheadings, skinning, dissection, torture.  nothing new. There has been more of this sort of savage stuff in the name of religion than drugs. Less in an egalitarian society than hierarchial. The evil triad: Power, Influence and Control.

And today, when someone farts, it can be international news in seconds, magnifying the effect and creating the illusion of pervasiveness. Couple this with an apparent fascination humans have with other's pain, and the quest for advertising dollars and you have gasoline and a match.

Personally I weep for the children and innocents whose quest is a roof over their head, safety for their family , and food on the table.
In civilized country they wouldn't. Evolution has blind spot in south america.