'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

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DD
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

DD
Juris; " Their job is to keep people from breaking the law and unlawfully entering country.  Get it? "

I get it.  And it scares the hell out of me how many think like that.  You seem to be saying that the BP should be able to use whatever force they deem necessary in order to do their job.  that would mean they could just sit in the bushes by the river and shoot anyone they saw crossing from Mexico.  

"Seriously.  They are assaulting people."

If someone walks up to you and slugs you in the jaw, he is assaulting you.  If in response you pull a gun and shoot him, you will probably be tried and convicted of murder.  The amount of force you can legally use is proportional to the assault committed on you.  The same is true for LEOs.

Don't throw rocks!! Respect U.S. sovereignty!!

Are we respecting the sovereignty of Mex when our law enforcement officers lob deadly missiles in the form of bullets across the border and killing Mexicans?  

@Nuttz.  I may as well respond to some of your statements as well.

would you throw a rock at an adult and not expect a reaction?

I wouldn't expect to shot and killed.

provoking someone with a gun is no bueno.  What's great is this a universal law.


I don't know of any country in the world where "provoking" someone is grounds for murder.

My favorite part of this topic is how people make it sound like Catholic school boys are fishing at the border.


I don't know of any Mexicans that were shot while fishing whether the be Catholic of Baptist.  I do know of the Mexican boy who was walking to the corner Oxxo to meet his brother when he got off work so they could walk home together who was shot 7 times in back.  I also know of the Mexican father who was at a riverside park with his wife and 2 small children and was shot and killed while grilling fajitas and chicken.  It seems their only crime was being a Mexican in range of a pissed off BP who wanted to take his frustrations out with his gun.

The whole shot in the back made me think that these people literally throw rocks and run

The mere fact of running away is pretty good evidence that the BP who shot them had on reasonable belief that he was in imminent danger to his life or seriously bodily injury.  If he had no reasonable belief of that there is no justification for the BP to use lethal force.  If he does, it is murder.

I was arrested as a teenager many many years ago along with several hundred other teens for the crime of "unlawful assembly"  in Galveston during spring break.  As we were being carried in the squad car to the lovely Galveston County jail, (built in the 1800s) a deputy constable who was part of the police brought in from all over the area nearly knocked my buddy's teeth out with the butt of a shotgun.  This deputy was probably a mechanic in his day job, but when given a badge and a gun, he thought he was the law.

jlopez was 100% correct that the only solution it better vetting of law enforcement, better training, and removing the impunity they enjoy by the agency they work for protects them and operates in the darkness of no oversight or accounting for it's actions or policies.

   
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Siskiyou_Kid
DD, thanks for spelling it out in reasonable, nuanced terms, again.

You did a lot better than what I can come up with, which is that these guys are BP agents for the USA, a supposed bastion of freedom, not North Korea or Nazi Germany.

What next, machine gun nests set up to shoot innocent people who even think about crossing the border?
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

nacho
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

jlopez
In reply to this post by Nuttz
After reading some of the responses, I find it amazing that some people believe that it is justifiable to murder a person for:

1.   Being stupid for throwing a rock at an armed BP agent.

2.   Disrespecting these same armed BP agents. This one really puzzles me; would their fragile egos be healed if these rock throwing fools were to kneel or salute when BP agents approached?

3.   Disrespecting the sovereignty of the U.S. by throwing a rock across the border at an armed BP agent.

4.   Looking like a person who might at some time in the future (or maybe some time in the past) might throw a rock at an armed BP agent.

Death penalty violations in every instance, judging from some of the comments.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

deelucky1
These are kids throwing rocks their not old enough to think by themselves their brain isn't fully developed their mini halcones that alert coyotes .these coyotes take advantage if these poor kids they fill in like a father figure with lots of cash do es anybody with kids here would like it if your son or daughter  got killed because someone manipulated them
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

snow
I appreciate jlopez's informed insights on this topic very much.  As an American, I would want any cases of officers killing rock-throwers to be investigated and there to be accountability when standards are not met.

One thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around is the mind-state of those throwing rocks.  I would have to imagine teenagers or even 10-year-olds understand what guns are.  I don't imagine many of them throw rocks at gun-toting narcos or would expect to survive doing so.

If they really don't know better, and/or have no choice and are being used, I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that this is unconscionable as well - without taking away from the need for law enforcement officer training/judgement/restraint.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Dicklick1
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DD
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

DD
@baja.  A thrown rock can under some circumstances be a deadly weapon.  But I don't know of a single instance where that was the case with BP.  (could have happened and I don't know about it because BP typically will not release info about investigations to the public, the press or even Congressional Committees.)

But in all the history of the BP (I think founded in 1914) there is not a single instance of a rock killing a BP agent.  They list all those killed in the line of duty on their website and it includes traffic accidents, heart attacks - in other words any death of an agent while he was on duty.  But there is not one listed that was killed by a thrown rock.

Makes it a little hard to believe that the BP agents shooting rock throwers have a "reasonable fear of death or seriously bodily injury".

Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Dicklick1
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

deelucky1
Wearing a hairnet is uncomfratable but its sanatary and the right way helmets and hardhats are also uncomcratable but saves lives !
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Jack Hawkins
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The inconvenient truth is that if you throw rocks at people with guns, you may get shot.

That is the truth.

Everything else is hyperbole.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Dicklick1
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Jack Hawkins
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Debate will not bring one of the 'rock throwers' back from the dead.

Neither will 'Civic Action'.

No one in the US really cares, the amount of apathy concerning Mexico and the activities there, is staggering. So, there can be discussion, there can be protest, the 'rock throwers' can be described as 'adrenaline junkies', kids looking for 'excitement' ...

Whatever ...


It will not bring back one of those that have been killed, in their attempt to 'get a rush'.

In fact by defending them, you are justifying them.
And in that, are an accomplice to the next one that dies at the hands of the BP.

Instead of trying to stop the cause, you focus upon the effect.

The 'Rule of Law' is plain, do not throw stones at people.
The side effects can be deadly. More so to the stone thrower than the intended target of the stones.

To not advocate for the stone throwing to stop, is nothing but encouraging more stone throwing.
To encourage it is to be an accomplice in the outcome.

That is the fact of the matter.


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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Jack Hawkins
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If you wish to 'reestablish' the "Rule of Law' in Mexico, stop the stone throwing at US Federal Agents along the frontier.

It would be a 'good place' to start of the process.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

aguiniga12
Just like the US' rule of law that fucks over its own citizens?
DD
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

DD
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@Jack.  Your cause and effect is kind of junk science.  Do you think the coroner would put on the death certificate of a kid who threw rocks and was killed by a gunshot from a BP agent that the cause of death was rock throwing.  If you can find such an autopsy showing that I would like to see it.

If you want to eliminate the cause of death being a gunshot wound, try some of those BP agents for murder and you will see the effect will be a drastic reduction of shooting at kids throwing rocks.  
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

Dicklick1
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

deelucky1
hes not a taxpayer he does not live in the U.S  or been to mexico!
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

nacho
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DD
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Re: 'Rocking' Border Patrol Agents

DD
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@Jack.  Is this your "Neighborhood Watch" sign in front of your house?

You go into [most] neighborhoods and see a little sign that says ‘Neighborhood Watch.’ Well, this is how we roll out here in Alpine,”
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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