Riots in mexico

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Re: Riots in mexico

Valhalla
IMO what is needed in Mexico is total reform of the judicial system where corruption rooted out, where people are not put in jail for months waiting for a sentence or cleared.
The powers in Mexico are already very heavy handed and are making a lot of mistakes, should we add executions to the list?
Anything coming from the government in this country is highly suspicious, if you read the news for a while, a pattern emerge how they explain their screwups and downright killing of innocents.

We have a big broohaa here in PV now because the Marines went berserk on peoples homes and cars, not to mention disappearing people, and these are the ones you would trust with the power of executions?

State sponsored executions is barbaric and don't solve anything, if it did, why are so many people in jail in USA?
All Wars Are Bankster Wars.
DD
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Re: Riots in mexico

DD
In reply to this post by Eskribe
@
I wrote and posted a long story on May23 about the death penalty in Mexico.  I am only going to post some excerpts from it here, but if you want to read the whole article, the link is below.

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I have been reviewing comments posted on BB over the last year and many if not most relate to two questions;

(1)What type of human being can do these things to a fellow human being?
(2)What is the solution to stopping the violence in Mexico?

I am including the discussion of question #1 in what is intended to be primarily a post on capital punishment because I feel the two questions are closely tied together, especially in Mexico.  I say "especially in Mexico" because the Mexican constitution is heavily slanted toward rehabilitation of the criminal rather than punishment.


"Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Frank Ochberg, a former FBI psychiatrist who led the counseling team after Columbine, told ABC News. And, unlike with psychosis (when people are delusional or out-of-touch with reality), psychopaths know exactly what they're doing -- they just don't care how it affects others.

It is not my purpose here to debate cure or treatment for psychopathy, but rather to decide what to do with them after they are caught.  According to some experts, there is little evidence of a cure or effective treatment for psychopathy; no medications can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy might become more adept at manipulating others and more likely to commit crime.  

Havana succintly tied my two questions together; (1) psychopaths and (2)punishment.
Havana--"studies do indicate the death penalty is a viable deterrent of violent crime but it is not in cases of sociopathic and psychopathic personalities. Sicarios probably fall into those categories."

Those comments from some of the most respected and knowledgeable commentators on BB boil down to 4 proposed solutions to solving the violence problem in Mx:

4. Change the Mexican Constitution and implement the death penalty.  
Death Penalty?  A deterrent?  I have been in agreement with those calling for a death penalty in Mexico.  I also have been in agreement with those who believe the death penalty would not deter the sicarios and other canon fodder of the cartels from pursuing their chosen way of life.

But, maybe it is time to think outside the box.  The current ideas and policies to deter violence and drug trafficking are not working.  

First, while the death penalty  would  not be a deterrent to those who face possible death every day, it would be an appropriate punishment for the most horrific crimes.  The Mexican constitution emphasizes rehabilitation as the goal of the criminal justice system.  That needs to be changed for certain crimes.

Secondly, I know this proposal is really thinking outside the box.  But, maybe it is time to think outside the box.  

I PROPOSE A PUBLIC HANGING AS PUNISHMENT FOR CARTEL MURDERS. Not a Sadam Hussein private style hanging.  but wait until you have a big group of convicted narco killers, a 100, 50, whatever, and hang them publicly at the same time on the Zocola (the main plaza in Mexco city).

The cartels commit many if not most of their horrific attrocities to shock and instill fear amongst the populace, and to show their power and control.  If the government inflicted this horrific punishment on convicted Cartel killers, it's purpose would be to shock and instill fear amongst the cartels, and inspire respect for the rule of law in the populace and show it's power and control.

After a few of those, I think capos might think about taking their money and retiring or running.  Some sicarios might take up other lines of work.  A bunch of halcones and young hoods might look for legitimate jobs.  The public in general would come to respect the rule of law.

I know it sounds crazy.  That is what I thougt too when I first started thinking about it.  But the more I thought about, I began to think "Why not". It would an appropriate punishment to fit the attrocities these scum have committed.  It would be bold and strong move and might move Mexico along a path to law and order much faster than the decades that most people predict. Maybe no other country in the world could, but with conditions as they are in Mexico today, I think Mexico could pull it off.
END OF EXCERPTS
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The fear of death from the death penalty will not deter the bad guys who face possible death every day.  They know that if they are killed in a shoot out with the military or police or even by the competition they will be remembered as heroic by their friends in the narco world.

What will instill fear in them is if they know they may put to death by the authorities and will leave a memory as humiliated, hanging from a gallows before the whole world, legs kicking, urinating and defecating on themselves.  That would not be considered very macho.

I am not talking about death for dealing drugs.  I am talking about Public Hanging for convictions of "cartel related homicides"
DD





http://borderland-beat-forum.924382.n3.nabble.com/Death-Penalty-SI-How-Lethal-injection-Gas-Chamber-Electric-Chair-or-PULIC-HANGINGS-tp4012259.html
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Riots in mexico

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by El Regio

and how do you know they are caught red handed?
because the corrupt police says so?
and what of those pesty indios?  
and the many wrongfully convicted?  good people, taking the fall like Toñio in the movie presumed innocent?

forget that...please address this:  you agree México is corrupt to the core, you and everyone agree, correct?

Yet you are going to allow them to control the noose?  and expect integrity?

explain how that works
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Riots in mexico

Canna_guy
Banned User
In reply to this post by Frontera
@El Regio

Your argument is flawed. The only thing that happens when one poor Mexican is killed is that another takes his/her place in the line. Poverty forces the majority of these people to become involved in these illegal activities. The first thing that must be accomplished in Mexico is to level the playing field as it relates to the equality of the people and ending the problem of poverty in the country. Without equality among all people there can be no fair administration of justice. People who are self-sustaining are less likely to become involved in violent activities and crime rates correlated to poverty drop to a prescribed equilibrium when this factor is removed from the matrix.

@Frontera

The application of capital punishment has been a failure in every country it has been applied it. It is impossible to carry out this type of judicial punishment equally among the people of any nation. As it relates to the US and application of capital punishment I found many factors that were directly correlated to misapplication. Prosecutorial discretion, and unbalanced jury pools were two of the factors that were off the charts as it related to the decision of applying the ultimate punishment to a criminal.

Prosecutors, being elected officials, must constantly prove their worth to those who elect them. This allows them to be strong and soft in their pursuit of justice. This pursuit can be dependant on the timing and circumstances of the criminal case ie, the social standing of the individual criminal, the period in the election cycle, heinousness of the crime and public outrage directed towards the crime among other things. It was my conclusion that those elected by the people and for the people have no business making the decision of who lives and who dies. There are too many aggravating factors to allow this responsibility to them.

Jury pools are drawn from voter registration records. Minorities have historically voted in low numbers and this directly effects the jury pool. The disparity of demographic representation in jury pools has been a problem for many decades. Before Brown was decided, prosecutors could simply strike a black juror and give no reason for the strike. Brown removed the possibility of this happening so frequently and now all jurors removed from the panel must also be done so with a legitimate reason on the record. There is no simple way of pooling a balanced demographic jury. I spent many months thinking about this one problem alone. The reason I did so was directly related to the 11:1 ratio a minority is sentenced to death for killing a Caucasian as opposed to a Caucasian killing another of his own race. Without a balanced jury, it is impossible for justice to follow its true path. There has never been racial harmony in the United States and I do not foresee that this problem will ever go away until Caucasians either become a minority themselves or decide on their own to accept brown-skinned people as equals.

I do not think that Chivo understands the process of justice and its administration in the US. He does not display the capacity for abstract thought. I do not know him personally but his words speak quite a tale about him even if he thinks otherwise. I do not know if he comes from a family that did not encourage education or if he was simply not motivated enough to become educated. He speaks from the mind of a tyrant. He is a person who demands other people be killed without thought. He does not think of the social impact of these killings. In his mind, all he sees are dead people and the problem going away when in fact, this only fans the flames of more violence.

I can not stress this point enough. It is impossible to use capital punishment equally in any country. It is an arbitrary punishment, influenced by factors that can never be changed. All of this being said, one question remains. Are their people who deserve the ultimate punishment? The answer is a simple yes. However, so long as it is handed down in an arbitrary manner, it is an unacceptable part of the judicial system.



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Re: Riots in mexico

Canna_guy
Banned User
In reply to this post by Chivis
Chivis, you are really surprising me with your views on this topic. I actually laughed, raised my Modelo in this very moment and toasted you.

Don't expect people to understand. People in general think because they can vote and have an opinion that this makes them all political scientists. Sad but true. Inevitably it could not be farther from the truth. Capital punishment has never been shown to deter crime in an shape, fashion, nor form. It is only seen as a means for scared white people to get rid of the brown boogie-man and control society under the iron-clad grip of fear. Citizens should never live in fear of their government and that is exactly what some of the people here are proposing.
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Re: Riots in mexico

Frontera
Canna guy “…………………unbalanced jury pools were two of the factors that were off the charts as it related to the decision of applying the ultimate punishment to a criminal. Minorities have historically voted in low numbers and this directly affects the jury pool.”

You answered your own question as to why jury pools are unbalanced. It is not intentional just fact.

Canna guy “It was my conclusion that those elected by the people and for the people have no business making the decision of who lives and who dies.”

There is no political maneuvering by elected officials when it comes to serious crime – punishment is up to a jury. A DA or whomever presents it to a Grand Jury to pursue or not pursue.

Canna guy “Capital punishment ………………………… is only seen as a means for scared white people to get rid of the brown boogie-man and control society under the iron-clad grip of fear. “

I was enjoying reading your comments until reading this obviously prejudice sentence.
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Re: Riots in mexico

†.©ĤİVǾ.†
Banned User
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Re: Riots in mexico

Canna_guy
Banned User
In reply to this post by Frontera
Brown decided that prosecutors were deliberately striking minority jurors in an attempt to create all-white juries and guarantee the success of gaining a capital sentence. You should examine a topic to a greater degree before expecting me to pack 112 pages of research into a couple of paragraphs that few people, (yourself included) can understand. The choice to pursue capital punishment is not made by a jury, rather; it is a responsibility that lies within the lap of the prosecuting attorney alone. I think you should do as I did and spend almost a decade in higher education and invest a couple hundred thousand dollars in tuition before you being to make interpretations. Your comments show that you are equally as blind as Chivo to the processes used by government and how they can be manipulated.
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Re: Riots in mexico

Eskribe
In reply to this post by †.©ĤİVǾ.†
Mexico is too corrupt, if u implement the death penalty there will be alot more of innocent people dying the government will get away with killing political rival without trial. comon death penalty would give a corrupt government a license to kill. no thank you Mexico does not need a death penalty. In Mexico the justice system works different from US in US you're "innocent until proven guilty" in Mexico u are "guilty until proven innocent" without a good lawyer you will be seeing alot of poor and uneducated civillians among the narco scum that will be executed.
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Re: Riots in mexico

†.©ĤİVǾ.†
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Re: Riots in mexico

Canna_guy
Banned User
You should see a therapist immediately. Your thinking is far more dangerous than any cartel. Do you have any idea the implications of what you are saying? Removal of all civil liberties and mass executions? Are you North Korean or simply a drunk fool?
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Re: Riots in mexico

†.©ĤİVǾ.†
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Re: Riots in mexico

Canna_guy
Banned User
You are not worth the time Chivo. I am sure you are living a very successful life with a beautiful family and a great house and this is why you are such an angry person. You should seek help Chivo. I mean that in all seriousness. I am shocked that those who pay for this site allow someone such as yourself to represent it in such a foul manner. I am sure they must be aware of it and I can only conclude that they are of the same line of thinking for allowing you to continue. Good luck with your happy life Chivo. Please make sure that you teach your children to hate and think in this way. The world always need a few psychos to use as an example of what not to do.
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Re: Riots in mexico

†.©ĤİVǾ.†
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Re: Riots in mexico

Canna_guy
Banned User
Please tell me what point you have made? That those who make comments deemed "ignorant" in the mind of Chivo should be publicly hung under the Chivo doctrine?

You don't have the capacity to discuss public policy. To do such thing is equivalent to scooping up the mess behind elephants in a parade. The same crap is only going to continue to fly out of the same hole. This is the reason you beg other people for ideas. You and a slab of granite share the same capacity for abstract thought.

Chivo Doctrine

Jaywalking = Hang them

Fart in public = Hang them

Being accused of ignorance = Hang them

People who don't pay attention to Chivo = Hang them

People who don't agree with Chivo = Hang them

Do you see the pattern developing you uneducated twit? How you find the time to moniter this site between your night job stocking shelves at Wal-Mart and holding your Will Work For Food sign is beyond me. Enjoy your life Chivo. I don't have time nor the patience to continue to responding to your babble. You are dismissed.

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Re: Riots in mexico

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Baggy
it was not just 132 it was several groups, some of indigenous persons etc.
it was well represented by several groups with different issues banning together.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Riots in mexico

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Canna_guy
Well I guess it has,.  :)
I am old enough to know  that one can defend a position but only a fool refuses to leave the mind opened. because no matter how convinced one is of their position being  correct, someday someone may come along and prove you wrong..

I want the best for the good people of Mexico...the 99%.  On every issue I am thoughtful of how an issue will effect them.

The truth of the matter is the death penalty needs to be abolished.

 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Riots in mexico

†.©ĤİVǾ.†
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Re: Riots in mexico

†.©ĤİVǾ.†
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Re: Riots in mexico

Nutcase
Here's a crazy idea...  The United States of America and the United States of Mexico should become a single nation.  Then we can all be in this together!  
Seeing is believing
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