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Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

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Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

el Jesse James
Whats up with that? Any guesses on who/what group is behind this? CJNG? CDS?


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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

canadiana
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I'm wondering if herion is getting 'passe',meaning going out in popularity as synthetic opiates are the new thing and that's why the Guerrero Governor wants 'legal' poppy fields to sell to Big Pharma or will Mexico eventually release it on their own population?Does anyone know if Mexico has a fentanyl crisis like north of the border?It's cheap like meth.
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

el Jesse James
I can at least answer part of your question Canadiana.. Atlanta is basically the dope hub for the southeast. We get a lot of folks from Tennessee, Florida, etc coming here to shop. Ive noticed at any given time there's at least 3 different types of dope in the Atlanta area, meaning 2 or 3 different sources/manufacturers from which it came if not 4. I would most certainly say dope is definitely not becoming passe, if anything the traffic is picking up. What we will see every now and then is dope that has no legs(short duration) and is very strong. Most will speculate that it's cut with fentanyl, there's ways to tell. I personally have only seen stuff once that I was positive was fent, having tons of experience with the old gel patches. It should be noted though that it's all still sold as Heroin. Anyone that has a supply of good dope, I guarantee theyll be able to move it like nothing. I predicted back in 2006 when Ricardo Valdez was busted cooking and moving like 25 lb of fentanyl up to Chicago, that we would see more and more fent cut dope. By no means is it universal tho... You're way likely to get plain heroin. And the market for it is not only still very much alive, but growing everyday. 9 years ago, the Flores twins were doing what 40 kis a month, I guarantee they could do probably 3x that amount if not more now. Also keep in mind there are many many fentanyl analogues, quite a few that you can get legally actually. Still like I said, heroin is big time popular and getting more popular daily. This is reflected not only in what I see everyday, and confirmed by the news here at BB. Increasing amounts of dope busted at the border, coke busts on the decline, etc. Consequently more Mexican groups investing more in dope production and less in cocaine shipments.
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

Mexico-Watcher
This post was updated on .
el Jesse James wrote
 "....  Still like I said, heroin is big time popular and getting more popular daily. This is reflected not only in what I see everyday, and confirmed by the news here at BB. ...."
Jesse James: You certainly seem well positioned to know the opioid/opiate using scenes in your region.  Given this, I have three questions for you:

Q. #1: What "kinds" of people use or are drawn into using Mexican heroin?  By "kinds" I mean age, race/ethnicity, SES, education, gender, age, etc. ?

Q. #2:  What kinds of dope scenes are there in your region where Mexican heroin is popular or getting popular?

Q. #3:  What does Mexican heroin look and smell like and how is it , typically, prepared and ingested into the body?

Anything you can provide on the above 3 topics will add greatly to this BB thread.... and, hopefully, stimulate further discussion(s).    

Gracias,
   
Mexico-Watcher
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

el Jesse James
1. All types of people. One spot I went to recently: a black mom and her ~25 year old daughter, 2 black adult males, 3 white adult males, 2 white adult females. I know a man who's a fairly well off doctor, both him and his wife are on it. Seen everything from chick's who sell them self to fund it, to people you would never guess would do it. I feel like a big determining factor in whether someone gets in a downward spiral or not, is whether the person is using a syringe. There seems to be a corresponding lowering of boundaries when they take that step.
2. Not sure what you mean by scene. It's not really open air if that's what you're wondering. It kinda can be open air if the people on that block know you and recognize you easily and you have rapport with them. By and large you're gonna want to have the connect's number. But certainly there's a few spots that are like quasi - open air. But usually these are also the places where you're quite likely to be arrested/pulled over for driving while white.
3. I can't say for sure since I ain't ever been on the supply side of things. I take the DEA's word for it that Mexico is producing like 60% of America's dope today. I ain't never seen tar here. Colombian style white/beige powder diacetyl morphine hydrochloride is by far the most common thing here you'll see.There's also tannish sometimes even brown powder dope that you'll see. Some speculate the white powder is Colombian and brown is Mexican, I disagree. As me and sisk talked about a while ago, CDS brought Colombian chemists in to learn their process of synthesizing white #4 powder, probably close to 10 years ago if not more. I think the brown vs white is just dependent on who made it, the process and the precursors they used/had access to.. so with that said many many people insufflate  it just like coke. A smaller, more hardcore percentage IV's it. And then a slight few will smoke it off foil as if it is tar, though obviously this doesn't work real well with powder and seems an inefficient waste.

Overall I'd say meth and heroin are the star players for Mexican DTOs as far as profit is concerned.
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

Mexico-Watcher
El Jesse: Excellent response to my 3 questions. .... I've got a much better picture of the situation in your region...Thanks

 Based on my experiences with mostly opiate and meth addicts in the Southwest US, the implications of your answers are grimly foreboding for America.  

 In simplistic, but actually profound sociological terms, it seems that many Americans: (1) "need" to consume narcotics despite the risks, and (2) are "unable", or "disabled" to recognize the various costs of becoming narcotics "addicts".  

 I fear that what you describe, suggests that drug abuse prevention programs are essentially ineffective.  

Again, thanks for responding to my 3 questions in such a colorfully detailed way.

Mexico-watcher


 
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

canadiana
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This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by el Jesse James
A bit off topic as it doesn't pertain to Mexico or cartels but opiates but does anyone know if they giving out free naloxone kits anywhere in the US?It's a good idea.I just saw an ad from provincial gov [Alberta] here today that pharmacies and walkin clinics are giving it out,no ID,no prescription needed and free to people.Don't know if they have been doing it all along or this is new but you would still need someone nearby to administer the naloxone and if a bunch did it together what happens if everybody OD's.It's happened.At least they are doing the harm reduction thing.I heard hearsay that some are doing fent in public washrooms in restaurants in case they OD someone will find them but it could put little children at risk using washroom if there's residue close by.                                                                                       http://www.health.alberta.ca/health-info/naloxone-program.html
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Anasazi
In reply to this post by Mexico-Watcher
Who is Sleepy Lokote and what's he got to do with this subject? Just curious. Your question-and-answer exchange with Jesse James was very informative.
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

el Jesse James
Who do yall think controls more poppy crops in Mexico? CJNG vs CDS vs CDJ/Linea..? Guerrero seems like a mess, with many different local groups. Maybe it works a bit differently? Maybe the local groups in control of the crops will sell it to one of the bigger groups that will then traffic it? Obviously CDS and affiliates will have a lot of Sinaloa and Durango, with some BLO presence and also Linea, inside the golden triangle. Not much info on Guerrero. I'd guess CJNG holds sway  there, but there sure seems to be quite a few local groups that are ready to shed blood to control the poppies there.
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

Tacuache
In reply to this post by canadiana
The U.S. answer to drugs is AA or "just saw no".  My personal opinion is that it is crap.  They'd rather lock addicts up than treat and help them.  Can't really say if this because of big pharma or slowness of the medical community to get on board or some special interests groups pushing the gov't to not fund these types of programs, but that's what I see here.  Quitting anything that's physically/mentally addicting is going to be an uphill battle and considering that programs like AA have a very low success rate (heard around 12% success before), the one size fits all method is what gets shoved down our throats.  Not saying anything against anyone that has been helped by AA, but I can only imagine that straight abstinence is gotta be b***** unless you got the cash to check yourself into a decent rehab.  I do know that for the past few years you can actually get naltrexone over the internet without a script which is considered a non-narcotic (similar to naloxone).
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Re: Poppy production moving into Oaxaca..??

Mexico-Watcher
This post was updated on .
Tacuache wrote
The U.S. answer to drugs is AA or "just saw no".  My personal opinion is that it is crap.  They'd rather lock addicts up than treat and help them.  Can't really say if this because of big pharma or slowness of the medical community to get on board or some special interests groups pushing the gov't to not fund these types of programs, but that's what I see here.  Quitting anything that's physically/mentally addicting is going to be an uphill battle and considering that programs like AA have a very low success rate (heard around 12% success before), the one size fits all method is what gets shoved down our throats. ..."
My dos centavos:   The alcohol and substance abuse treatment (Tx) problem in the USA is extremely complex and because of this no single Tx can work for the many "kinds" of people that "become" alcoholics or drug addicts. To keep things simple,  I will focus my remarks to opiate/opioid addicts here.

Consider the following sources of differences among those destined to become addicts.
1. Young and lower Education versus Older and more educated.
2.  Anti-social  vs Conventional values.  
3.  Lower social class vs higher class memberships.
4.  Religious (spiritual) values vs secular orientation.
5.  Racial/Ethnic identification membership vs WASP identification and membership.
6.  Lower Socio-Economic class (SES) membership vs higher SES.
7.  Psychiatric personality problems vs "Normal" personality.
8.  Male vs Female .
9.  High familiarity with Drug addiction scenes vs little to none.  
10.  Peer group heavy involvement with street drugs vs little or no involvement.
11.  Functional family support vs dysfunctional family support.
12. Criminal or deviant history vs little to none .
13.  Prison experiences vs none.
14. Family history of drug addiction  vs little or none.
15. Below average I.Q.  vs Average to above average I.Q.


....  As you can see, the permutations and combinations of possibilities are many. Sadly, the realities and exigencies of opioid/opiate addiction force all kinds of addicted people to enter the self destructive "junkie" funnel where they eventually end in the junkie bucket often appearing eerily similar.    Picture that the opioid /opiate addicts in the bucket were of all kinds finally meeting at the picadero, prison, or morgue.  

 If you randomly pick 100 cases of  "junkies" in prison or the County morgue, you will see what I've tried to convey here. ... Namely great variety on many variables who all have in common that they died early of causes linked to drug abuse.... not just overdoses to narcotics.    
   
Drug treatment programs have various means of "including" and "excluding" who gets treatment.... Of course, ability to pay is a big factor!   The alcohol and drug addiction treatment industry is huge and profitable.... And, I believe an important part of the problem, but this is a story for another time.

Mexico-Watcher

 
 
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Mexico-Watcher
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Anasazi
Anasazi wrote
Who is Sleepy Lokote and what's he got to do with this subject? Just curious. Your question-and-answer exchange with Jesse James was very informative.
 Anasazi: I don't  actually know anything about Sleepy Lokote. It is a picture of a guy who posted it on BrownPride.com.   The reason I posted this picture is that it has revealing symbolism of a  barrio "vato" mimicking impending suicide.  I found it sad and not funny at all. Ask yourself, "What kind of person would have a sobriquet of "Sleepy Lokote" and post a picture like that?  I am convinced, that there are many opioid/opiate addicts that are consciously and subconsciously death seekers.  At least the guy in the picture seems to realize this, as bizarre as that sounds.

Many lay people do not know there are different kinds of suicide methods and motives.  It is a deep topic with surprising elements.  For example, some people are "passive' suicides as they seek death at the hands of others or by subconsciously contrived accidents!  They literally do stupid shit that gets them killed! In this group are those who consciously and unconsciously provoke others to kill them. BTW, some mental health professionals consider certain kinds of prisoners as having committed "social suicide."   Haven't we all known people who seem bound and determined to play Russian Roulette with their lives?  You literally are not surprized when you learn that they died and the manner in which they died.  I have known my share.  

It would be interesting is to follow the Sleepy Lokote's life through 10, 20, 30 years from the date the picture was taken.  In my imagination I see him continuing to lead a self destructive (suicidal) "vida loca" lifestyle that does not end well.  Hopefully, at some point in his life, he may experience profound "good" bio-psycho-social changes that will save his life from a bad end.  

Finally, many drug treatment programs do not actually deal with "suicidal life patterns" because it is too problematic to do so on many practical grounds.  Rather, treatment programs tend to deal with relatively "easy" symptoms of addiction and try to engender personality and behavioral changes that may lead to prolonged abstinence.  When they don't, it is the patient's fault, of course.   So, typically, these programs are not surprised when the patient relapses... and rest comfortably in the knowledge that the program will not be faulted.  I have met many parents of addicted kids who, IMO, wasted many thousands of insurance and their own dollars on "rehab" treatment programs that, to me, seemed worthless.  This who issue is scandalous and unlikely to be openly addressed because it would kill the Golden Goose of the Drug Abuse Treatment industry.  

Mexico-Watcher  


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