Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

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DD
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Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

DD
You are a Federal Police officer (or a State Police Officer), parked along the highway watching for speeders or other law breakers.  You are just doing your job.  You serve out of a sense of duty and are a "clean cop".    You know many fellow officers are on the payroll of a cartel, but you don't want anything to do with that way of life, and think drug trafficking is ruining MX.  You have to close your eyes sometimes or look in the other direction sometimes, but you have stayed clean.  You have a wife and 2 little girls and your salary and your wife's job allow you to provide a modest but adequate life style for the family.
Suddenly a black Suburban with the windows tinted so that you can't see inside pulls up in front of where you are parked.  Then a late model Ford F-150 with extended cab pulls up behind you nearly touching your bumper.  You are not an idiot, you know you have big problems but you think you can handle it because you are not affiliated with any cartel.  Ten men in masks get out of the two vehicles and surround your car.  Three of them get in your cruiser.  One of them hands you some car keys and says "these are the keys to the pickup behind you.  It is our gift to you and you will accept it or we will kill you, your wife Maria, and your two daughters Elisa and Tania.  We will give you a stipend each month as well and all we will want from you is information from time to time.  Plato or Plomo".
What do you do?

DD
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Jack S. Shaw
when you're making about 200 bucks a month as police officer and the cartels are paying you 2000 a month?   they wouldnt have to ask me twice.  its simple....mexico doesn't pay enough for people to remain faithful.   its economics 101.    
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

mladicadic
Not you Jack. But then you also quite keen on rape as well, so I don't know how typical you are. Stay retired!!

For me, the lead part of the equation would be a far bigger motivation. I'm not really in a position to judge someone for what they do just to survive, but there's not a punishment I would say a cop taking money from a cartel doesn't deserve to have done to them.


DD
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

DD
In reply to this post by Jack S. Shaw
Jack, low ranking municipal traffic cops may make $200 a month, but according to the IPS (Inter Press News Service) "Applicants wishing to join the federal police forces must have graduated from secondary school. They undergo training courses that last a minimum of three months, and can earn 1,000 dollars a month or more."  In a 2007 interview they did with a Federale, he commented about making $460 dollars a month, but that was 4 years ago before many of the reforms had been instituted.  Do your homework before popping off.
OK, we know you would sell out for $2000 a month, but the price it would take to corrupt someone is not really what I was talking about.  I was talking about what does a clean cop who wants to stay clean, doesn't want to be on the payroll of a cartel do when there are credible and certain death threats against him, his wife, and his children if he doesn't accept it.  If he does accept it, the next question has to be what do we do with him if he is caught by the authorities.  To me these are very vexing problems.  The only defense I can see for such a cop is to not use the money they paid him.  As hard and tempting as it might be to use that money, if he stashed it and did not spend it, he might be able to show show that he did not get any "illegal enrichment" from his association with the cartels and that he was acting under duress.  
As much as I hate the corruption in Mexico, and I do think that any public official convicted of corruption should receive very harsh penalties, there are sometimes not any easy answers.  
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
Tex
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Tex
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Tex
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Tex
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Bones
In that situation, I'd say "sure". Then the next day i'd pack up my shit & try to sneak into the US. And this is exactly why even though im against illegal immigration, i dont blame the immigrants for trying
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Jack S. Shaw
whatever the amount they get paid is below poverty.   as for myself i can certainly understand where they come from as I'm a parent.   really, what choices do they have?   its either go work for the cartels or die.   wow that gives them a lot of options.   now speaking as a  former fed law enforcement officer, i would never and have never crossed the line.  why?   because i had a 6 figure job, great FERS pension that would pay me 85% of my salary for life,  excellent matching TSP plan where I was about to save well over 1 million dollars.   none was threatening me with a gun to my head also.   I feel for those guys.   Ive interviewed over 300 people who were caught at the border crossings with drugs stashed in their car.   majority of these people are poor people from mexico needing to provide for their families and they are exploited by the cartels.   One guy got 25 years in prison for 500 bucks they paid him only to get caught with 20 kilos of cocaine.  its sad and speaks of the condition of mexico.   sorry to say, but the only way to defeat the cartels in mexico is to nuke the entire country and start over again.
DD
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

DD
Jack, sometimes you talk so rationally and are very informative.  Then you come out with "nuke the entire country".  Whatever happened to the poster "Looking for Solutions" attitude on this forum.?
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
DD
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

DD
In reply to this post by Tex
@Texcoco.  I know it is a hard question to answer.  But I don't think they should should just be lined up and shot as some would propose.  It's kind of like a city council, zoning board, school board, etc. that adopts a "zero tolerance" for what ever it is they are supposed trying to control.  It's just  a way to avoid having to make a decision.  Sometimes it results in rediculous outcomes.  I remember the lady in Calif. that had a vegetable garden in her front yard, but city code required "conventional ground covers" in front yards.  she was fined like a $1000 a day until she removed it and planted grass.  
kind of got off point, but what I am trying to say is every violation of the law is not equal.  Years ago I defended in federal court a kid who was arrested at a drug house with 13 other people.  He was there to buy heroin.  The others were gang members distributing and selling drugs.  The govt. tried all of them as one case.  My kid had recently returned from Vietnam where he had been severely injured and was hospitalize for several weeks and was on morphine for the pain.  Neither the Army or anyone else did anything to help kick his hospital acquired addiction when he was discharged.  He was quilty of buying heroin, but he was not the criminal that that the others were.  Fortunately he received a much reduced sentence compared to the others.
Coerced cooperation should not be treated the same as corruption solely inspired by greed.
dd
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Jack S. Shaw
unfortunately in life, sometimes there is a point that there is no choice but to tear down and start over.  mexico is waaaaay past that point.   i believe that mexico will be taken over one day by either the cartels or another country that sees a wounded fish and devours it.   i know the communist countries such as north korea and ole chavez there in venezuela would love for communism to take over in mexico.   people, its headed in that direction.   hell were headed in that direction!   socialism is a serious problem in US.   it will take over mexico one day.   the people cannot take care of themselves with poor wages and inadequate living conditions.
Tex
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Tex
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Tex
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Tex
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DD
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

DD
In reply to this post by Jack S. Shaw
Jack, it seems like I am picking on you lately, but I really am not trying to do that.  It is just that lately you have making a lot of statements that sound like sound-bites from Fox News and I feel compelled to challenge some of them..  I know that North Korea has one of the largest armies in the world with over a million men in uniform, but do you really envision then coming several thousand miles across the Pacific Ocean to invade Mexico?  From recent news reports Chevez will be dead in the next six months to a year.  Who knows what will happen then?
As to Mexico and the US moving toward socialism,  if anything IMO just the opposite is happening.  The definitions of socialism differ a little dictionary by dictionary, but the simplest  I found on the net is;

Socialism is a system whereby the ownership of capital, resources and production capability reside with and are controlled by the citizens.

Do you really think that is happening?  The citizens of Mx are taking control of the capital and production capability of the country?  If you see that, you need to lend me your glasses so I can see the world through your eyes.

As to Mx being beyond the point of no return or repair, I think it will take a very long time for Mx to solve its problems.  But I do see things changing.  Not just sending the army out to restore some peace, but the firing and/or arrest of several hundred corrupt prosecutors in the Attorney Generals Ofc, the firing and/or arrest of several thousand police officers for corruption, hopefully the passing by Congress of new punishment laws (60 years)for anyone affiliated with criminal organizations.  But maybe the most important change I see are the little ones.  Read the stories carefully this year about the seizures of arms and drugs and arrests of criminals and many of them have been made because of ordinary people calling in tips such as seeing armed men coming and going from a house in the neighborhood.   I am sure all of those people were afraid, but they reached a point where enough is enough.  If that feeling continues to grow, the Mexican people will be doing something for their country and Mexico will change.
Sermon is over.
dd

Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

JesusTheMoose
In reply to this post by DD
DD, you a philosophy question or maybe its a question for a moral theologian. If I was stuck in that vise I'd get the hell out summarily. Plata o Plomo is no place for a person of integrity.

Jack: I wouldn't nuke Mexico. The good people there don't deserve it. Sometimes plain old plata works for USBP and CBP. Some fools in San Diego and El Centro sectors get canned all the time.

Texcoco: I agree, I have no pity for folks like the 30th or 25th street gang. I still recall that some of their members beat a hard working man in his fifties to death infront of his son because when he was mugged he only had $5.00. I'm happy though that the SDPD doesn't mess around. I wish all gangbangers in SD could be tried in East County. They have hanging juries with cajones.

I think Calderon is on to part of the answer. Fire everybody and replace them with outsiders.
The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
Tex
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Re: Plato o Plomo? Silver or lead?

Tex
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