Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

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Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

ninjasandpurp
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Bajadrone-2
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Siskiyou_Kid
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I can't figure out how anybody would think Escobar was anywhere near the level of El Chapo.

First of all, Escobar's earnings peak lasted for less than 5 years, while El Chapo has been at the top of his game for decades. Also, Escobar was not the main force behind the Medellin organization, that was the Ochoa family.

Secondly, Escobar was only involved in coca sales [after first being involved in petty crime and marijuana] while Sinaloa is involved in worldwide distribution of coca, meth, heroin, and marijuana.

Thirdly, while Escobar had widespread influence in Colombia and Panama, his reach never even came close to the tentacles that Chapo has not only throughout Mexico, Central America, and Colombia, but also in the US, Europe, Asia, and Australia. I would argue that in Colombia alone Chapo is more influential than Escobar ever was.

This is made perfectly clear by the fact that Escobar's son is reduced to selling t-shirts with his father's likeness.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Bajadrone-2
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Siskiyou_Kid
I'm not sure how we could know the true net worth of either one.

I've always been skeptical of stories about many criminal masterminds and their fortunes, including Amado Carrillo and Don Rafa, but considering the empire that Don Rafa has held onto, I think the stories about him are somewhat true. I think the stories about Chapo are also true, considering the audacity of his escape from the Altiplano.

As far as Escobar is concerned, there is no doubt that he was bringing in billions of dollars, but how much was he spending, and where did it go?

It seems obvious that neither his brother nor his son were able to hold on to much, if any, of the money. Maybe it all rotted in underground bunkers.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Chivis
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In reply to this post by Bajadrone-2
I am with you and I have studied both men extensively...

 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Bajadrone-2
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

La Flama Blanca
^^^
@Baja
Best comment so far in my opinion, it was two different eras.  

Did cocaine not exist in consistent supply anywhere outside of North, Central, and South America during Pablo's era?  If it was available consistently elsewhere then Pablo could have had tentacles reaching out through other parts of the world.  Or it could have come from American suppliers/dealers like Jung.  I say supplier bc Jung was a supplier in the U.S.  Chivis and Siski Im sure you guys have some excellent info about this kind of thing.  It had to have reached Europe first, from Brazil to Africa, and up into Europe.  Or Coke could have been used as payment for heroin, in NY and the Northeast with the Italian, Greek, Hungarian, Croatian Mafias, Etc.  And shipped back to Europe.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

_Jack
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Siskiyou_Kid
No, there's no doubt that Escobar was a bigger 'terrorist', but although the original post has been deleted, I thought this was something about who was more powerful or a bigger and wealthier leader of organized crime.

By the way, I was in Colombia during part of Escobar's reign of terror.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

_Jack
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

bolio
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Chivis
Plus, allegedly he was not the top boss in the cartel.   Rich beyond belief, violent as hell and a major major player.  I understand that the Ochoa brothers were the real "bosses".  But I could definitely be wrong.  Also Chapo didn't do nearly the messed up stuff Escobar did.  He killed more than half the supreme court, think about that.  He blew commercial airlines out of the sky.  Had thousands of cops killed by creating a well known bounty system.

In my mind Chapo is a boss who is highly intelligent. Escobar occupied a very very high position in the Medillin cartel.  He might've even made the most money.  However, he was a psychopath whose reign was relatively short.  People can get away with a lot but once violence comes into play, especially of innocents, their time is limited.  Look at the Zetas who were extremely powerful but they overplayed their hand with the violence.  Not to say Chapo wont use it but as a last resort but it is best avoided.  Further, I don't think he would put it on YouTube.

Chapo - boss
Ochoa brothers -bosses
Escober - maybe considered a boss but below the Ochoa's.

This was brilliant on the part of the Ochoas.  Absolutely brilliant.  They kept their heads down, didn't participate in the violence and made others believe the head of their organization was Chapo so that is who they went after.  Both the gov't and los pepes........................

The easiest way to get caught is the violence because the public wont stand for it when I reaches a certain level.  No matter how many bribes are paid.  The boss in Philly hated violence (the one before Scarfo) and lasted a hell of a long time.  Tony Acardo spent a total of one night in jail and led the Outfit for 60 years...  

When you need it use it but only against other criminals, not halcones, real criminals.  Don't put it on YouTube and put one in their head, much easier for the public to accept than skinning people alive and cutting off their heads...  Just my opinion though.




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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

elrojo
Chapo is a boss but of his faction only. Not the entire cds. Dont forget about his compadres.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

La Flama Blanca
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by bolio
11 out of 25 Supreme Court Justices.  Not quite half .  Escobar was probably just as highly intelligent as Chapo.  His mistake was getting into politics.  If his glory days were 5 years, including being an alternate Representative in Columbia's House Reps.  He could have lasted years longer if not for his politics mistake alone, followed by committing terrorist attacks against his fellow Columbia's, many of whom, before it got out of hand, probably supporters of Escobar.  However he was very violent, like you said.  He was basically Osama BL of Columbia, who actually ordered multiple high profile terrorist attacks.

I wonder if El Chapo and Escobar ever were in the presence of each other.  If so, Chapo (not yet a top boss) probably would've accompanied Felix Gallardo, Rafa, or Don Neto, to Columbia for a meeting with Escobar in the 80's at some point.  Although the Guadalajara Cartel's main coke connect was with the Cali Cartel (If your main hook's phone is off, what do you do?  Call someone else...Duh).  Doesn't mean they never took one shipment form the Ochoas/Medelin and Escobar.  After the Caribbean was mostly shut down by law enforcement, the Colombians were simply giving the Mexicans large cocaine shipments for free (the cost would be smuggling it through Mexico, to Columbia suppliers in the United States).  The Mexicans would get to keep around %50 of the shipment for payment as well.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Bajadrone-2
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Siskiyou_Kid
The Ochoas were already a wealthy family who owned tens of thousands of acres of farm land and their father raised champion Paso Fino walking horses. There was some kind of story about Escobar first meeting with the Ochoas back in the 1970's and they were disgusted by the uneducated lowlife who lived in a filthy apartment with dirty clothes strewn about.

He had been supplying them with a few kilos here and there, and he told them they worked for him. They were shocked, but he told them he was taking over for their boss, Fabio Restrepo [uncle maybe?] They called their boss and Escobar had just had him killed an hour before.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Bajadrone-2
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Siskiyou_Kid
Fabio Restrepo was the boss of the cocaine scene in Medellin when the Ochoas first made it big in Miami. I speculated about a familial relationship because of Fabito's maternal name [Restrepo].

Fabito is locked up in the US. His father, Fabio Ochoas Vasquez was the patriarch, although it's unknown what if any involvement he had in cocaine trafficking.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Maddy
In reply to this post by Siskiyou_Kid
I think Miguel Felix gallardo made more money than them all cause remember he is the true God father of all Mexican cartels.. Shhhhitt he masterminded the mex cartels. Remember he divided mex by sectors(cartel) and began each cartel by calling them Juarez cartel, gulf, Sinaloa, Tijuana cartel. Then they broke or divided and called themselves Beltran leyva, michoacan, Colima, Oaxaca and so on. But these new generation cartels, their first and original jefes were Felix gallardo lieutenants, therefore he was more powerful and richer than them all. ✌
" Es más chíngon el chapó que el gobierno mexicano"
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Re: Pablo Escobar vs El Chapo.

Nuttz
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