Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

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Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Chivis
Administrator
The government makes no mention of autodefensas  in press conferences, why do they fear the public knowing the truth?  And why are reporters not inquiring about the role of the autodefensas in the capture of Nazario Moreno aka "El Chayo"?
Sequence of events

 

On February 27th,   I wrote: 11AM Breaking News: I have just been informed, an hour ago they have located El Chayo at his ranch in la sierra de Tumbicastío….(I was told later that day they missed him by 20 minutes)


On March 1st," I wrote of a concentration of an  elite team of federal forces,  from Arteaga to Tumbicastío.  Bringing with them satellite equipment, heavy artillery and tanks.  


For their part autodefensa teams have accompanied Special Forces, utilized  as guides, as they advance  to Tumbicastío, and have stationed in points encircling the mountain range (to prevent escape)."


On March 1st Dr Mireles, stated to reporters, that with their  joint action with the Special federal forces, they  are close to capturing in Nazario Moreno González, aka "El Chayo" and with luck, also Servando Gomez, aka "La Tuta ".


On March 3rd, there was yet another near capture of Chayo by autodefensas at Chayo’s ranch in Guanajuatillo, Apatzingán. The “safe” ranch is a self-contained, fully functioning ranch, using solar panels for energy, computers and sophisticated communication equipment.



On March 7th, Autodefensas gained direct knowledge that one of Chayo’s brothers had left the  Infiernillo community of the  Arteaga municipality, and was headed to Lázaro Cárdenas.



Autodefensas relayed this information to federal authorities, who with the information were able to zero in on the brother and apprehend him.



That made the third brother of Chayo apprehended since February 8th. ( There are 11 known siblings of Chayo).



The brother of the March 7th apprehension is believed to be the source of information of the huge birthday party being held for Chayo, pinpointing his location for that time frame.



March 9th “ Autodefensas and federal forces closed in on Chayo and a couple of dozen of his gunmen, at another one of his farms in the community of Naranjo de Chila,  of Aguililla municipality.



Autodefensas formed the fence surrounding the ranch, protecting against another Chayo escape.  He did try to escape in truck, by accessing a dirt road that leads to Tumbicastío.  



At 10AM  Chayo refused the command to surrender instead answering with gunfire, initiating the shootout that left the Caballeros Templarios maximum leader dead.    His gunmen were killed, wounded or fled.  



Shame on the government to withhold the truth


For the government to ignore the assistance of autodefensas, is not surprising but reprehensible nonetheless. Without the guidance, sources, intel of the autodefensas Chayo would not have been located.  

For years Michoacana had to survive in the grip of terror by cartels.  With a state government in bed with narcos, and a federal government who deemed the good people of Michoacán unworthy of their intervention.

Federal forces were forced to intervene because of autodefensas.  Forced to search for narcos because of autodefensas.  If a year ago February, had not a group of men sharing a meal, right then and there decided, "no more", we will pick up arms and defend our communities, if that had never happened, the rapes, killings, disappearances, dismemberments, extortions would continue, and Chayo would still  be in his white robe atop his white horse, riding free in the sierras.

In the past government forces have forged into the mountains of the sierra in search for La Tuta and other Templarios, and failed.  This was largely due to their inexperience of maneuvering the sierras, this gives Templarios a huge advantage and time for escape.  Many autodefensas themselves live in the sierras, they are as skilled as Templarios trekking off  roads.



For weeks autodefensas have been an integral part of the search operation.  At least 300 members, on rotating 3 day shifts.  We were told of the near misses, we were told they were closing in, we were told Chayo would be captured.  All came to pass.



On deck ....Tuta


La Tuta, he  will be more difficult to capture but he is the next target of autodefensas.  He surrounds himself with 60 or more guards.  Autodefensas will create a fence encircling Tuta in Arteaga.

 

Reports are that Tuta is very concerned, to put it mildly, that he will be captured.  One wonders why he has remained in the sierras.  



Dr Mireles says they will stay until Tuta and the others are captured, already zeroing in on "El Tucan”


He says Tuta will be captured or killed.


And I believe him.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Jack Hawkins
Banned User

One wonders why he has remained in the sierras.  

He has no where else to go.
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

adam3
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Jack Hawkins
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not one person who could stand up and do an effective job while he was receiving treatment.  

Only the truly pessimistic or someone totally enveloped in 'Gloom and Doom'
would describe the liberation of Apatzingán, by the AD while Doctor Mireles was sidelined, as not being effective.

The success of the AD, while Doc Mireles was in rehab, was just FABULOUS!

The AD liberated the major city of the region, Apatzingán. as well as a half dozen minor town and villages. All while the Doc was in rehab.

Whoever would call the liberation of Apatzingán ineffective, has an agenda other than the defeat of the CT and the liberation of the people in Michoacan.

Liberated from the fear they have endured for a decade, the largest city in the region, over 150,000 people were liberated while Doc Mireles was sidelined.

If that is not to considered 'effective' what would actions would have been 'effective'?
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

ESLiero
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This post was updated on .
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Jack Hawkins
Banned User
That is a senseless thing to say,  ESLiero.

There is no crying, there is CELEBRATING.

More people were liberated while Doc Mireles was in rehab than in his entire tenure as Leader of the AD, prior to the plane crash.

The discussion was the 'Effectiveness' of the AD, during his absence.

The AD was at its most effective period, when he was in rehab. If the 'rolling back' of the CT and the removal of their governing apparatus is/ was the primary goal.

That is a statement regarding the reality on the ground, not utopian dreams or novela story lines

150,000 people liberated and not one death or even a shot fired.

That is effectiveness, defined.
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Chivis
Administrator
nice jack!
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

adam3
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

adam3
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Itzli
In reply to this post by adam3
"El Abuelo" was with the AD from the beginning and Dr. Mireles has defended him being a part of the group.
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

tuSancho
In reply to this post by Jack Hawkins
Jack, I thought from the title the discussion was about:

"Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo"

I am glad to read this because I really haven't believed the reports that didn't mention the AD finding Chayo.  It is like the towns I live in in Mexico and in California.  In fact, many places are this way...  the cops are from somewhere else, not locals, and they never catch anyone on their own, only when there are leads or snitches.  They never catch anyone red handed.

Years ago - and I suppose no changes - when Watts went to riot, one of the constant complaints there and in other neighborhoods populated by african americans, the cops are like invaders.  They have no stake in the community.  The invading cops come in, stay in their cars, and patrol or eat doughnuts, when not abusing the population.

It is the same in Mexico, Michoacan or wherever.  The cops are not local and invade.  So, without the AD, nothing can really happen.  Only in the past few weeks with the aid - I call it leadership -  of the ADs the criminals are getting captured and killed.

All cops, federales or whomever, are invaders; gutless bastards who hide themselves and never live in the communities they invade.
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Jack Hawkins
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In reply to this post by adam3
The effectiveness of any leader is judged by the results of their organizations.

When Mora and Smurf took charge, after the Doctor had the accident, they orchestrated the 'Deal' with the Federals. Doc Mireles, from rehab, called it theater, and he was correct.

It was theater that the Federals required.

But what did it accomplish ...
The liberation of Apatzingán  and the deployment of the Federal troops that killed Chayo.

Did the AD assist in the hunt, without a doubt.
Did the Federals acknowledge, publicly, the assistance? Nope.

Does that matter? Nope, not at all.

It may have ruffled some egos, but the goal was obtained.

Obviously there are some who see this as a novela, a story ...
There were those that bemoaned the lack of combat in the liberation of Apatzingán.

But from a practical, on the ground reality, from an operational standpoint, the AD flourished when Doc Mireles was the leader and it did even better when he was not.

Perhaps the AD, as an organization was not as well controlled, but the pace of liberation increased.
The agreement with Pena that legitimized the movement was made and now Chayo is dead, again.

That goes back to the agreement, the one that Doctor Mireles called theater, but which engaged the Federals and sent Tuta to the mountains and Chayo to his grave.

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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

adam3
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

adam3
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

tuSancho
In reply to this post by Jack Hawkins
Jack, I think there has been a learning curve and development within the ADs.  I mean, they had a lot of machetes and sticks in the beginning.  So debating over the leadership is only marginally important.  And like with the Sinaloa cartel, losing Chapo, is only cutting one head off of the hydra.  In the same sense the leadership fairs better and so do the troops by synergy.  Tierra Caliente has been a overall hostile environment, like the "wild west" for decades.  This whole thing is in a state of flux and watching it is novela-like.  There is drama.  The many facets are all interesting.  What happened to the Purepecha?  How are they fairing?
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Chivis
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that is not accurate, many of the members are hunters and had those weapons.  later they could pick up abandon weapons and vehicles after liberations.  there is a HUGE group of Michoacana in California either first or second largest US group.  they have several associations and it is those people who are sending funds to AD,
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

Jack Hawkins
Banned User
In reply to this post by tuSancho
Yes, it is an intersting story, but it is "Real Life' it is not a novela.

No, the AD would not have captured or killed Chayo without the Federals.
They had not done so, had they?

It was reported that the AD had Tuta 'surrounded' at a finca or ranchero, but he got away.
While the AD waited for the Feds.

At the time I advocated for the AD to attempt collecting the bounties but then the consensus, here at the Forum, was that they should 'Let the Feds do it".

"Commanding" a freestyle militia, is like herding cats.

Small Wars Journal, counter insurgency - I've posted some of the links, it is all laid out.
The Feds and the AD are right on time and target. It could not be going better than it is.

It is a good show, but it is no novela. It is a War Movie.
Real life, real time, and very few of the people here even begin to appreciate the difficulty of what they are doing.

Their successes are always minimized and the challenges they face, magnified.
It is a shame, really.

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Re: Mex Goverment shields the truth: it was autodefensas that led forces to Chayo

viejo
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