Making sense of the cartel situation

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Making sense of the cartel situation

Anon
 I feel like things are so confusing right now with the cartel situation, that its hard to really know what is going on. So I'm going to write my understanding of the current situation of the major cartels and hopefully people can add to it, or correct me where I'm wrong so we can flush things out. The media largely seems to be doing a lousy job of keeping up with the cartel wars, often times the information is outdated, lacks insight, seems regurgitated, relies on clichés, or is more concerned with pushing an agenda than conveying information (I'm talking about Breitbart).

1) The Gulf Cartel (Cartel Del Golfo)- My understanding is this this organization is factionalized to the point of not being an organization at all. There are Metros, Rojos, Talibanes, and several other groups which sometimes work together and sometimes fight each other. I don't think there is a Gulf cartel anymore, just several groups that used to be  part of the Gulf cartel.

2) Loz Zetas- Los Zetas are similar to el Cartel del Golfo in that they have broken into at least three factions. CDZ, Cartel de Noreste, and Old School Zetas. So in the same way in which I don't think there is a Gulf cartel anymore, I don't think there is a Los Zetas organization either. Instead there are now these new groups, which are essentially cartelitos.

3) Cartel de Tijuana- Its hard to find much information at all. From what I understand, the son of Ramon Arellano is running what is essentially a gang and is allied with CJNG.

4) Cartel de Juarez- Are they still referred to as Nuevo Cartel de Juarez? This organization is probably the third strongest in Mexico right now, behind CJNG and CDS. The leaders seem to be Carlos Quintana Quintana, Julio Olivas Torres and Cesar Carrillo Leyva. Ricardo Garcia Urqueza was released from prison and is probably back in the fold as well. Information is sparse on the Juarez Cartel. I don't know who the boss of La Linea is, or if Los Lynx are still active etc.

5) Cartel de Sinaloa- Here is basically the only cartel that is getting coverage. It seems to be imploding with Mayo Zambada allied with the sons of Chapo Guzman engaged in a war with Damaso Lopez. The organization is so factionalized, I'm starting to wonder if there is a CDS anymore, or just loose trafficking groups from Sinaloa that have no agreements among their leaders.

6) Beltran Leyva- Are they operating? Are they cohesive? It looks to me like there is no Cartel de Beltran Leyva because all the groups that used to make up the organization have nothing to do with each other.

7) CJNG- Other than the Juarez cartel, this seems to be the only cohesive drug cartel operating in Mexico right now. They seem strong and are made up by about 4 leaders, with Mencho being the most powerful.

So this is how I see it. The situation is messy. Basically there are two, possibly three cartels really operating in Mexico. CJNG, Juarez and Sinaloa (which is at war with itself). The rest are just loose semi alliances which are more often then not, fighting against each other, or essentially small trafficking gangs. So I think these names are outdated. The media should address this and we should stop referring to Los Zetas, Los Beltran Leyva, Cartel del Golfo etc., as if they were single, cohesive, groups. I'm looking for people to tell me where I'm wrong or add to this.

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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Mexico-Watcher
Great Questions.  I too get very confused at the cartel territorial chaos and the people that are "in-and-out" and/or "dead or alive" in them.  

 I hope people who "really" know things jump in and clarify things for us.
Mexico-Watcher  
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Anasazi
In reply to this post by Anon
Anon, I think you have a pretty good grasp on the situation. Some additional notes ...

One big piece you're missing is the situation down in the Tierra Caliente region (Michoacan, Guerrero and bits of the surrounding states). It's a major drug production center (poppies/heroin, meth production, marijuana), an import/export center (lots of precursor chemicals come in from China to the Port of Lazaro Cardenas, and lots of drugs leave that same port for East Asian markets), and one of the most violent/conflict-ridden regions in the country, currently.

The situation there is an absolute mess. CJNG is probably the top dawg in that region, especially in Michoacan. However, there are probably a half-dozen or more cartelitos / gangs / armed groups / celulas operating in that region, especially in Guerrero. Groups like Las Ardillas, Los Rojos, Guerreros Unidos, Los Tequileros and CIDA. The remnants of La Familia Michoacana and Los Caballeros Templarios are still kicking and somewhat resurgent. These groups have shifting alliances among each other that make it very hard to follow the narco-politics from the outside. The lack of a clearly dominant group is part of the reason why the murder rate is so high there and too out-of-control for the authorities to get a handle on. It's a region that can't be ignored in any analysis of the drug war in Mexico because it is one of the top sources of drugs and one of the places with some of the most brutal violence. Civilians are very frequently targets there and kidnappings are very common.

Re: the Zetas ... I'm not sure I would call CDN or CDZ "cartelitos". Based on the news reports that come out, these groups still control a pretty vast territory, have lots of political and law enforcement connections, and they move lots of weight. I think Old School Zetas are more of a cartelito/gang, however, and less of a traditional narcotics-focused cartel than the other two.

Re: Cartel de Tijuana ... This organization typically goes by "CTNG" now (Cartel de Tijuana Nueva Generacion). They're mostly made up of people from TJ but they source drugs and get logistical support from the CJNG in Jalisco. I don't think an Arellano is leading it. The leader was probably "El Gross", Arturo Giovanni Herrera, up until he was killed in Jalisco last October. I'm not sure who the current leader is, but I doubt it's an Arellano. I could be wrong though. I think the organization is a bit more sophisticated than a "gang", but it is true that much of its operations are focused on local "narcomenudeo" street sales in TJ rather than transshipment and distribution into the U.S.

Re: Los Beltranes ... BLO has had its leadership depleted. Mochomito and "La Senora", Hector Beltran Leyva's wife, were both arrested in the past year. H2 and H9 in Nayarit were killed in the past month. Chapo Isidro has been low-key and not in the news for, I don't know, over a year at least? There's probably still a Beltra-Leyva core organization operating in Sinaloa, Sonora and maybe Nayarit, but it can't be very powerful or cohesive at this point. The far flung branches/celulas that the BLO used to have in Tierra Caliente, Morelos, Central/Southern Mexico and places like that far from their base in Sinaloa are almost surely all independent now or aligned with other cartels.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Gizzle_WON
Very good description of things.

Regarding Tijuana nueva generación its very comical how they started. An individual from California went to TJ for a few days. And people were asking a lot of questions about this individual. This man said he was from Jalisco. But never that he was a cartel man. But you know how gossip tends to evolve things into what they are not. This man was actually born in california hence why he was with older americans when they were renting a house in Playas. But since he carried himself like he owned the place and got along with the locals of playa yet no one could verify his identity rumors started flowing all over the place. You can thank the taxis and the communal taxis for this gossip being started. Also this was right about the time this woman was killed who was killing taxi drivers just for petty cash. All the people thought it was this new man going around town freely and without a worry causing all these things. But it was not. This is when young kids from Tijuana made their move and decided to find support from the real Jalisco nueva generacion. But they never saw the man who started this movement again. This is because he was never part of a cartel or even connected to them. These new kids happen to stumble on some (good/bad) luck and found their jalisco connection all because of this new man stirring up all these questions. Jalisco just wants to expand took advantage of the situation and these young kids were to stupid to remember why they started looking for a connection in the first place. Which wasn't a good reason to begin with. And now you have this bullshit going on for petty sales and left them with their dicks in their hands when it comes to the real money. Education & family is everything in this world.  When your involved in these activities nothing good will ever come from it. Your a pawn.

As for Isidro. That man was the luckiest of them all. He knew where all the cash stashes were and made sure he stole it. Theres no need for him to be a narco. He kept the olympic swimming pools of cash and has no over-head. Like funding an international crime gang

Some insight into this world for you ladies and gentlemen

Gizzle
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

elrojo
In reply to this post by Anon
The way i see it with cds nothings going to change. There are too many families, not factions, that are too involved. These guys have heirs for their families that have already been groomed a very long time ago. Only way to eliminate narcos is through sinaloas culture. Sinaloa's culture is too deep in this. Wether its politicians, regular folks or gente en la mafia. As confusing as times are, sinaloa is in too deep, the bosses down south are 100% and thats exactly their mistake.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Anon
In reply to this post by Anasazi
 That's a good point, that I neglected the tierra caliente. It does seem to be a mess down there, but I think CJNG will make everyone fall under their umbrella eventually if they keep growing the way they are.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Anon
In reply to this post by elrojo
 I could be wrong, but I think there will be some big changes in Sinaloa. Mayo is getting older, Damaso and Chapitos aren't going to reconcile etc. So the families will stay in tact, sure, but they may end up forming a new federation or possibly joining with CJNG. Time will tell, but I definitely see things changing there.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Siskiyou_Kid
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Anon
Organized crime in Mexico is a symptom of endemic corruption at every level of society.

Nationally, CDS has lost the backing of the government and their power has been usurped by CJNG/Los Cuinis/RCQ.

The key for criminal organizations to operate with relative impunity is a solid relationship with those in power. CJNG/Los Cuinis/RCQ have been able to regain control of Michoacan and expand throughout the country with alliances with those who control border plazas and with the backing of EPN.

Their rapid expansion is due to a combination of shrewd planning and the use of other criminal organizations, who are often left adrift after CJNG has taken their power or no longer needs them.

The backing of the federal government and their rapid ascension is directly related to EPN and Grupo Atlacomulco, Mexico's political mafia controlled by the financial elite. Los Cuinis have strong ties to several members of Grupo Atlacomulco, which in turn has virtual control of Los Pinos and and the federal government at all levels, as well as several key states.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Siskiyou_Kid
In reply to this post by Gizzle_WON
Thanks compa. Most people would never come near me in person, because I look like a fed.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Anon
In reply to this post by Siskiyou_Kid
Siskiyou, so would it be fair to say that currently there is one national cartel that has the backing of some influential elites from Grupo Altimulco? That being CJNG, and then the rest of the cartels are now essentially regional satellites which although independent still have to answer to CJNG? The groups that won't go along or come into the fold will then be targeted by both the government and the CJNG?
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Mexico-Watcher
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Siskiyou_Kid
Siskiyou_Kid wrote
Organized crime in Mexico is a symptom of endemic corruption at every level of society.

Nationally, CDS has lost the backing of the government and their power has been usurped by CJNG/Los Cuinis/RCQ.

The key for criminal organizations to operate with relative impunity is a solid relationship with those in power. ....

.... The backing of the federal government and their rapid ascension is directly related to EPN and Grupo Atlacomulco, Mexico's political mafia controlled by the financial elite. Los Cuinis have strong ties to several members of Grupo Atlacomulco, which in turn has virtual control of Los Pinos and and the federal government at all levels, as well as several key states.
Siskiyou:  The pinpoint specificity in your post is greatly appreciated.   The implications of what Grupo Atlacomulco "is" ( as you suggest) is that of a powerful shadow government that Mexicans live under.

Therefore, if I read things right, Grupo Atlacomulco  virtually "runs" Mexico .... and all its "overt" institutions, governmental agencies, functionaries are but feel good fictions.  God, if this is even 1/4th true, Mexico is totally fucked.  IMO, only a violent overthrow by patriots could correct this situation because conventional democratic processes such as "voting" would NOT work.

Surely, this nefarious Grupo Atlacomulco has a security arm that does not tolerate being exposed because it needs to continue having Mexicans live under the myth that they have a legitimate government ruling over them and looking out for their welfare and sovereignty.  Siskiyou, do you feel safe as a whistle blower.

Questions:
 1.  Do you think our CIA (Donald Trump) and other USA entities know about Grupo Atlacomulco and it vast powers and influences?  If so, the implications for the USA (narcotics, illegal immigration, NAFTA, the WALL, etc. are vast).

2.  Is Dr. Mireles a "designated" target of Grupo Atlacomulco's machinations to neutralize him?

============
I found some interesting stuff about Grupo Atlacomulco on Wikipedia . Click here  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlacomulco_Group

Thanks, everyone...Great BB Thread!
Mexico-Watcher
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Nutcase
Carlos Slim is by far the richest man in Mexico and one of the top in the world and he doesn't get F*%#d with by the cartels? I know he probably has a massive security team but still imagine the kidnapping ransom money figure they could ask for with him or some of his family. I bet most of his family moved to the US because of that reason...  

Does anybody know how he originally made his first money before he became rich? Was it legally gained or through nefarious means?
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Siskiyou_Kid
In reply to this post by Anon
No, there are still organized crime groups across Mexico that are not aligned with CJNG and continue to subvert justice and openly operate through corruption. CJNG is just the current dominant force in many important states and have the most financial resources.

Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

jlopez
In reply to this post by Mexico-Watcher
Kid and Watcher: In Mexico, the Grupo Atlacomulco is also known as the "Grupo Atraco Mucho".
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Anon
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Siskiyou_Kid
Siskiyou, I get that there are independent groups etc. I guess what I'm asking is, if CJNG is on the "in" with the powers that be inside the government (Grupo  Atlacomulco), then a group like CDS would be on the outside of that power, thus exposed to being cracked down on. It seems to me that CTNG and the Nuevo Cartel de Juarez are essentially sharing their plazas with CJNG because 1) they can't afford another full scale war and 2) it is probably mutually beneficial to do so. So then I see the other tierra caliente organizations as out of the selected power group, so they will be on the run and susceptible to attack. I don't know how the Gulf organizations fall into this. Is my interpretation close?
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Re: Making sense of the cartel situation

Siskiyou_Kid
Of course I don't have inside info, but I basically have the same take on the situation as you do, and it would seem that other groups in tierra caliente [Michoacan/Guerrero/and now Colima/areas of Jalisco] are facing more pressure, but things are localized with these groups as well, even how army zones [a division of the army that usually controls each state] are paid off and utilized. This includes independent groups all over the country, and can be difficult to follow as you see with Itzli's Current Events in the Gulf Cartel.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.