Mainboard rant

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
40 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

canadiana
Administrator
O Chivas I would like your opinion on why Baja is different than the rest of Mexico besides the obvious remote geographical location?Whats your take on it as you brought  it up but didn't elaborite on.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
In reply to this post by canadiana
canadiana wrote
No Pepe Tijuano was quite clear on MB that the Normalistas didn't deserve this even though he didn't agree with all the things about them.And if I mess with cartels it doesn't mean I deserve what I get but I could be asking for it.For example if I wear a miniskirt in a red light district at 2 in the morning no I don't deserve to be raped but the invitation to the rapist would be more likely than if I walked in a miniskirt at 2 in the afternoon around sober people so my odds would be less likely to be raped so I think he was referring to possible lack of common sense on the Normalistas part.Does everything have to be SO politically correct?

Ok, I´m convinced, I suck at expressing ideas in English.

Not really much worth to keep pointing this out, but here´s my last attempt: All I tried to say was that I believed they were killed by narcos for the simple and stupid reason they got mad at the students, nothing more, nothing less, I wasn´t saying they deserved it, or they asked for it, all I TRIED to say was they weren´t liked in the area by a certain part of society(hence my comments on how politicians have called them several things in the past) and how they more than likely were attacked for simply getting the wrong people mad. By wrong people I didn´t mean someone you should not mess with, but someone who could cause harm to you.

I appreciate your support Canadiana and hope I was a little bit clearer this time.

Saludos!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Chivis
Administrator
the first group of police who participated said the mayor and wife did not want them collecting money in iguala.

they have always attacked activists.  remember the 8 activist leaders with the mayor himself shooting Hernandez Codona as he threatened the day before
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
Chivis wrote
the first group of police who participated said the mayor and wife did not want them collecting money in iguala.

they have always attacked activists.  remember the 8 activist leaders with the mayor himself shooting Hernandez Codona as he threatened the day before
Now I´m reading an alleged statement by a GU leader saying they were infiltrated by Los Rojos, that makes NO sense to me, had they been infiltrated by sicarios they would have shot back, it just makes no sense to me, save for the fact that Federal Government is trying to downplay this.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Chivis
Administrator
this was in the beginning.  remember even the 8 activist were told to sign los rojos on the manta?
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Itzli
In reply to this post by Tijuano
Milenio is reporting that 12 of the 43 normalistas were children of community police members (12 normalistas desaparecidos son hijos de policías comunitarios). They do not present it as a motive, but I wonder if, once captured, the link was discovered and Guerreros Unidos decided to execute them because of that connection, possibly paranoid that the community police was a front for Los Rojos.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
In reply to this post by Chivis
@Chivis: Forgot about that...

@Itzli:

It does make sense, at least to me, this guys are constantly paranoid and see enemies everywhere.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Itzli



the order originated  from the mayor.  all were to be executed.  a long history of killing normalistas in especially 3 states, gro, mich and jal

remember hernandez,,,,remember hernandez....remember hernandez

same story, different victims, and the survivors said the executioners were to write a manta signed by rojos claiming responsibility.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Itzli
Maybe I'm making things too complicated. I see the mayor being brazen enough to order the execution. Where I hesitate is Guerreros Unidos blindly following the order. Would it not have crossed their mind that it would have consequences on them, that it could not be swept under the rug? Then again we're talking about a bunch of thugs used to government corruption, so they may very well not have feared consequences. I just find it possible that the police received the order by the mayor to have them killed and the police may not have relayed that order accurately to Guerreros Unidos, instead they painted the normalistas to be potential Los Rojos members to ensure their execution. I'm just thinking out loud and may very well be off base.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Chivis
Administrator
Itzli

did you see the new video from the leader of the real AD?

it is very informative, he says Los Viagras now are in control
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Itzli
I'm aware of it but haven't got to watch it yet, just read some highlights. No surprise, it seems Los Caballeros Templarios are all but extinct and so Los Viagras were expected to fill the void. My guess is we'll start seeing some major shifts in Guerrero next.
DD
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

DD
In reply to this post by Tijuano
In my post back on 10/15 on the MB, "Mayor's Wife Responsible For Massacre?", I said someone (probably one of the goons from GU who were her bodyguards) whispered to her that a group of Normalistas were approaching the plaza where she was having her big day and making a speech.  She supposedly told the goon "Stop Them".

That order, "Stop Them" was communicated from her to the GU bodyguard, and from him to the police commander in the area, and from him to his men.  

Somewhere along the line, someone interpreted that to mean "Stop them, arrest them (kill a few if you have to), but keep them from getting to the plaza by whatever you have to do.  

Even though she had the close ties to the GU and maybe was powerful leader of that group, she was launching her political career that day and knowing that her ordering them all killed just doesn't make sense.  She would have known that would create a political firestorm that would not further her political ambitions.

After the police killed a few people and arrested (kidnapped) the 43 missing, the commander was faced with the problem, "what to do with these guys?  they witnessed the killings we did".  Maybe he contacted the Mayor or Lady Iguala and told them what had happened and they told him to turn them over to the GU, or maybe he just thought "it was Lady Iquala that gave the order to stop them and she is a jefa in GU, so we will just give them to GU and let them handle the problem".

Kind of like the massacre of the CA migrants in San Fernando, the bosses didn't order the execution of the 72 migrants, but things "just got out hand" on the ground.  Someone starts shooting and mob mentality takes over and everyone starts shooting.

I think that might be what happened in Iguala.  That doesn't make the royal couple any less culpable.  They are slime bags.  Knowing the history of killing normalistas with impunity, she could have given the order "Stop Them!  You don't have to kill them, just keep them away from here (the plaza).  

It reminds me of the old game where you have a group of people sit in a circle and the first person whispers a secret to the person on his left and that person passes it to the next and so on until it gets back the first person.  Very seldom is it the same message that was started by number one person.

 

Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Itzli
I think you are correct, you are talking the north, right?  Landia GU

Iguala is important because it is one of the main staging points of drug transfer
with the help of viagras, mencho is becoming hugely powerful.  and RCQ

Here is the rub, Viagras have proven to be fickle allies.  IMO, the brothers have always intended not to be satisfied with being allies,  they are power hungry and are aiming to one day unseat mencho.  

Not bad for new kids on the block.  Doc M told me "Sierra Santanas are brutal, and more dangerous than Templarios, they will quickly become the foremost foe of Michoacán society"
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
JMB
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

JMB
In reply to this post by Tijuano
I understand you completely.  I'm from a bit further South and until the people themselves stand with one voice and DO something about the criminal element (including the government), it's no one's fault but their own how the Country progresses.

No one person can change things on their own. (A lesson from Zapata) You need the masses to participate.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Itzli
In reply to this post by Chivis
Yep, northern Guerrero. Even if the arrests stop now, Guerreros Unidos took some major hits and are vulnerable. The state is reported to produce 60% of Mexican poppy and Iguala is in the heart of it all. I believe that any void will be filled and it could get ugly. Los Viagras strike me as opportunists so I agree any alliance is likely just for convenience.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
In reply to this post by JMB
JMB wrote
I understand you completely.  I'm from a bit further South and until the people themselves stand with one voice and DO something about the criminal element (including the government), it's no one's fault but their own how the Country progresses.

No one person can change things on their own. (A lesson from Zapata) You need the masses to participate.
Totally agree with that.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
In reply to this post by Chivis
Chivis wrote
Itzli

did you see the new video from the leader of the real AD?

it is very informative, he says Los Viagras now are in control
Chivis, do you happen to have a link to that video?

I´m not surprised about hearing Los Viagras took control, as I said when the Autodefensas first appeared, someone has to take over such a lucrative business and as I feared, the "Autodefensas" (Notice the quotation marks) were infiltrated to the point they became the new criminal group (Rurales?), what I didn´t expect was the fact they would become so with the help of the federal government.

What´s the current situation with the AD´s led by Doc Mireles? Did they remain "independent"(for lack of a better word) or were they absorbed by other AD groups? Do you got any news on Doc? Are they still fighting and looking for Templarios or did they retreat to their hometowns?
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
In reply to this post by DD
@DD:

Agree 100% with you and totally can see that scenario taking place.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tijuano
someone is working on it.    

.  H3 IS VIAGRAS, always were viagras. they were never AD.  the only true ad, even tuta admits, yes some group are narco and rurales for sure the commanders are narco, but that there are true ad.  This is the coastal AD, the large group headed by Doc Mireles.

I told doc that coming into BV on the day of the lito/Americano showdown, was 70 vehicle convoy...all viagras coming to execute lito for Americano because pollo's deep fry.  Doc said it was not true.  an hour later he tweeted me that ...well looks like there was a convoy and lito was airlifted.

that is how much power simon had from the beginning.  You see, H3 is Buenavista, they ONLY reason they formed was because the then mayor told mariano that the people had meeting and they insist on forming AD, and if they did it on their own they would put their own council in place.  so they had Americano and other thugs go in and organize under the banner of AD.  The mayor left to higher office and was executed as he was interviewing with a reporter, I think the reporter later was killed not at the time.  can't recall , I have written about all this, and Valor on MB.  We covered 90% of BB reports.  and then Pepe came along and he has been a huge help to me in the region.  So I think we have provided some of the best reporting on the subject.

I have written about them since a month after they organized.  I think that is why I could connect to doc because no one knew much about them at that time, and clearly no one was writing about them outside mich.   and viagras today only have been organized for such a short time about 18 mos.  so for anyone to think they would take ct, well....I don't know.  luck was in their favor:

ct weaken by hits
Mencho in mich
mench agreement with  mariano and carlos
extention viagras into upper coast of gro
RCQ weapons and vehicles
Castillo forming rurales
attacking true ad instead of the criminals
Americano given labs, commander role assured expansion.

 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Mainboard rant

Tijuano
Yeah I know they werent true Autodefensas, hence the quotation marks, and know there are real autodefensas out there.

So, it kinda became a "perfect storm" scenario for Viagras to take over I guess, had it not been for them someone else would have, no doubt about it.

I got to ask, is there any proof of RCQ involved in all of this besides Tuta's video? Am I missing something there?

I agree with you and Itzli, Viagras sure sound as extremely oportunistic and IMHO will backstab Mencho as soon as they can, and sadly, that can only mean more bad news to Michoacan.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
12