Fair trail among your piews

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Fair trail among your piews

Charlotte
American's are not El Chapo's piers.  He has to have the trail translated through earphones.  What is wrong with the US.  His piers are the Mexican people.  Stop playing god.  Let the guy be tried in his own country among his own people.  Bet the verdict would be quite different.  He was being a pawn.  The US has enough of their own criminals.  The Mexican government assisted him.  The politicians want this trail done in the US so the Mexicans find out they (the politicians) were fully involved. This has got to turn around.  Drugs, crime, and violence is all part of El Chapo's world, even as a child.  Let him go.  Americans buy the drugs why aren't they on trail.
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
So what are we thinking?  Ship Chapo back to La Tuna and have Mayo and Chapitos decide if committed any crimes? I can see why this is post numero uno
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Chivis
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In reply to this post by Charlotte
Interestingly Chapo was never tried in Mexico and never convicted. He did in fact spend over a decade in prison.  

I do agree he was used as a pawn in the sense that the US needed a trophy, a narco monster, to hold high to the American people as proof their tax dollars are being well spent and the drug war effective.

total bullshit of course.

As I said in my op-ed "In reality the drug war was lost the day it began".  Catching the capo does nothing to change it, and can make it worse. Crippling  of the middle layer of organization, stifling traffic routes and legalization are the only avenues to victory.

As for Chapo, lets be clear no matter what happens he will die in a US prison.  I believe he deserves a new trial based on the evidence outlined in the motion set forth yesterday.  That said, that will never happen.  the first trial was the most expensive in US history.  a plea deal will be made and chapo will have a reduced sentenced, but one that will almost guarantee it being the equivalent of a life sentence, as it should be.  BUT he will have better "accommodations and privileges"  such as general population and greater visitations.  

I am fiercely against long term solitary confinement but for extreme cases, such as terrorism.  which is what SAMs was created for after 911, not for drug traffickers.

and remember, chapo escaped twice in Mexico but was punished for those escapes in the US.  not Mexico.  why?  because escaping prison is not a crime in Mexico. aiding is.  the caveat is if any one is hurt in the process



 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Ciro
Its a tough argument because whats going on in Mexico can be blamed on the US in my opinion.
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
Make the argument for me.  How is the gas theft, corruption, murder rate, etc... the blame of the US?
Also when you say US, is that everyone in the country, who specifically in the US?

Ciro wrote
Its a tough argument because whats going on in Mexico can be blamed on the US in my opinion.
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Chivis
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In reply to this post by Ciro
do you mean violence etc from trafficking?  the old US users create the demand?  There is truth in that, but modern day traffickers follow the zeta model of diversification.  usually 50/50 and those activities and customer base  are home based
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Mica
mica
did you see one of our readers is mentioned in the motion?  he wasn't too happy
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Ciro
In reply to this post by Mica
By starting the war on drugs the US started the longest and most costly war ever.  Its pointless  people will alway use drugs.  Things like gas theft and extortion is a product of the drug war.  When cartels cant move drugs they turn to thing like extortion and gas theft.  Yes I know Cartel de lima got there start moving gas but they are know supported by CDS and more or less manufacture and move drugs.  It all goes back to drug trafficking and the war on drugs.
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
In reply to this post by Chivis
@Chivis I saw that!  It’s about to get very interesting as this case cost so much!
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
In reply to this post by Ciro
@Ciro
So because officials in both countries do not freely allow cartels to do what they want, violence, slave trafficking and other violent acts are the product?  

Chicken or the egg?

If Mexican had an honest government would this situation be the same?  

I don’t have an opinion, because I don’t use fentanyl and heroin.  But their is a big problem with the demand for this crap in the US.  Should the government make it legal, fuck no!  People are selling their children for this crap.  But I am all for weed legalization, because I am responsible adult (debatable).  If my I get tested at work, I know that I can’t partake.  

It’s always an interesting and unagreeable debate.
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Mica
he is quite interesting.  His comment was a good one...page 6 near bottom
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Ciro
In reply to this post by Mica
first in my opinion legalizing opiates would be a good thing.  Its proven to work and it has worked in Portugal.  If Mexico had a government with no coruption you would still have a major problem in Mexico as demand is driven by the US.  
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
If Portugal has worked so has Thailand. Opioids are highly addictive, abused and results in many deaths.
Portugal self-documented a peak of 100K users.  In the US, 72,000 drug overdose deaths occurred in 2017.
I don't see how legalizing a 10 day supply would decrease that number.  

Help me understand.  

If Mexico had a government with less corruption, there would be law and order resulting in criminals receiving punishment.  Yes, there would still be a demand in the US, but law and order would exist in Mexico.  For example, the demand is in the US but does that mean the same level of corruption and slave trading and gas theft occurs in Canada?  

The difference between Canada and Mexico is an opportunity and the middle class. There is no middle class in Mexico.  
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

deelucky1
This post was updated on .
U.S cares more for a limping dog than a drug abuser thats a fact .US has there illegal cash cow DDT pesticide on south american soil .drugs are bad motto forever !$$$$&$$




Sidenote:hope canadiana doesnt kill this thread with her pumkin pie recipe.
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
This post was updated on .
@deelucky my conspiracy amigo.  How much do you think the CIA makes annually in the covert drug sales?  
How much do you think the tax payers spend?

--Here is the answer
"Abuse of tobacco, alcohol, and illicit drugs is costly to our Nation, exacting more than $740 billion annually in costs related to crime, lost work productivity and health care."

lol come on man!
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Chivis
Administrator
how much each?
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Chivis
Administrator
that is what i thought-alcohol and tobacco is the majority- so lets ban alcohol!!!!  oh wait, we tried that :)
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

Mica
I see your point Chivis, but can we compare alcohol to opioid addiction? I don't know that answer.

Legalizing marijuana in areas of the US did not decrease crime or corruption.  The black market is thriving.  Legalizing all drugs would just make a huge black market in the US, Mexican corruption would not disappear and cartels would keep their criminal portfolios diverse as ever.

It's a terrible problem, it's shocking to think nearly 80,000 people a year die in a single country to overdose.  
MX
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Re: Fair trail among your piews

MX
In reply to this post by Chivis
@Chivis: From my understanding, El Chapo was convicted to 20 years and 9 months in prison prior to his 2001 escape.

See this source for more details: En cuanto a los tribunales mexicanos, Guzmán Loera tiene pendiente de cumplir ocho años de una sentencia de 20 años y nueve meses de prisión, luego de que fue declarado penalmente responsable de delitos contra la salud, cohecho, asociación delictuosa, acopio y portación de armas de fuego.
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