Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

manuel2984ny
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Mexico-Watcher
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In reply to this post by Soliado
Soliado wrote
ThinkTank wrote
I guess it is to be expected that they would want to beat a US presidential candidate with bats. Really not so funny. For those of you on the journey to finding truth, here is a piece of truth for you.

The fact that they came up with these goofy items, and the fact that some people think it is funny, is a clear illustration of how some people think. if you don't like someone, kill them, or beat them with a bat.

Im losing hope for democracy. The majority of the people are overwhelmingly stupid. Therefore, Democracy will ultimately, and inevitably, lead to our decline and destruction.
Think Tank, I'm going to use your own quote to reflect on what you just said about democracy solely to make a point about democracy. Nothing else should be inferred by my comments.

It is because we live in a democratic society that we, as common people, were given the right to freely express ourselves by the founders of this nation in the Bill of Rights. Prior to the founding of this nation, the original 13 colonies were governed by the British monarchy and King George III. Democracy certainly didn't exist under British rule, neither did the freedom exist to criticize King George III but the Colonists did so anyway. One manner was to burn effigies of King George. During this time period, burning an effigy of of the King could result in an offender being sentenced to death by hanging.

A pinata, which is what you are referring too in your post, is vastly different than an effigy. Not only does Merriam-Webster Dictionary have very different definitions of the words but they represent entirely different things, especially in the Latino culture. According to the dictionary definition of an effigy-it is an image or representation, especially of a person; especially: a crude representation of a hated person.

They define pinata: a container filled with candies, fruit and gifts that is hung at parties or celebrations and hit with a stick by children until it is broken and things inside it fall out.

The reason the proprietor is selling a pinata made out to resemble Trump isn't because of hatred of the man. It's to seize on the marketing opportunity presented. Let's face, he is in the news because of the idiotic comments he made about a number of different cultures and countries. However, within the Latino culture, especially in Latin America, it's pretty hard for the people there to hold hatred for a man that they really don't know, have little to no dealings with, and he does not have any influence upon the average life of a Latino. The real truth of the matter is that we use pinatas during festive occasions. That is about the only time that one is bought whether it is here in the states or in Latin America. We hit it with a stick to break it to let loose the candy, fruit, money, or small toys that are secreted inside of the cavity. It is never struck out of anger, frustration, out of a desire to kill someone or in a demeaning manner. It could be a pinata of a mother in law from hell and still it would only be hit to get at the sweets inside. It is purely meant for fun not because the pinata represents someone disliked.

As for being on a journey to finding truth. I learned this many years ago from an assistant chief that I admired for many reasons. He taught me to looks at issues from a "Global perspective" and to read articles on the same topic from different sources in order to gain varying perspectives. Our world is not black and white, there is a lot of gray out there, especially when it comes to making decisions or looking at things from the point of view through the eyes of others. I don't have your experience and knowledge of issues just as you do not have mine. However, I will always respect your opinions and your right to express it. At the end of the day, we can agree to disagree but that's ok just as long as I heard you and you heard me.
Soliado: Your description of pinatas for happy events was positively enlightening and I plan to hold your thoughts on pinatas for  spreading "memes" ... Our familias in my friends and kinship networks have used pinatas in the ways you eloquently described.

A quickie "cuento" from a child's POV: As poor kids living in a barrio, birthday parties were very important events ... and "la pinata" ritual a highlight of sheer joy.  I recall the very generous filling of the pinata with candies and small toys, and coins showering down and little kids scrambling like happy bees to flowers.  And happy parents all around cheering them on ... themselves, re- living their childhood.  

As a conservative who likes Trump, I think he could take the pinata effigy and promote it into a very positive meme for his campaign.  Certainly,  he has the resources to get his marketing psychologists to transform what at first blush seems a negative into a positive symbol.    

Finally, I would drop my support for Trump in an instant if I sensed that he is a racist.  I have concluded that his
remarks about Mexicans and Mexico were reasonable and no worse than those made by many Mexicans themselves. I also think that his advisors will force him to clarify himself... and that in so doing the American people will see where he is coming from.  Remember, he alluded to learning much from frustrated BP agents on the US/Mexico border.

About racism, I must say that many Mexicans racists themselves and we should be careful in making accusations of others when we have the same disease. I feel many peasant Indios would agree with me.   Also,  Borderland Beat is repleat with very extreme views and conclusions , by Mexicans themselves about what Mexico has become .  Some ex-pats are  even afraid to travel there today.  Mexicans of high intellectual calibre and respect, who say in so many words, "Mejico esta jodido."  

So, anyway, I loved what you had to say about pinatas. Gracias!

Mexico-Watcher
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

ThinkTank
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Siskiyou_Kid
There is no doubt that Fox News viewers are overwhelmingly Republican voters, just as MSNBC is viewed by individuals who lean toward the Democratic Party. However, I think CNN, like PBS and ABC, is popular with people who are less concerned with political spin in the news, and just want to catch up on current events.

Personally I don't watch much tv news, but I find the overt political spin on MSNBC and Fox News nauseating. I prefer to watch something like CNN if I'm looking for current info on a natural disaster or other breaking news item.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Siskiyou_Kid
Well, CNN is owned by Time Warner, so they probably have a bias toward US corporate interests, which tend to lean Republican, but they don't exhibit the overt bias seen on MSNBC or Fox News.

Still, according to some simply reporting the truth makes some networks biased, because they can't handle the truth.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Siskiyou_Kid
I do agree that what you say you saw on CNN regarding Ferguson sounds like bias. It's nearly impossible to cover a subject in depth without appearing to convey some kind of bias. I also sometimes watch political crap on channels like MSNBC just to see what the "other side" is saying, but too often I get disgusted.
Those that say, don't know. Those that know, don't say.
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

dave
In reply to this post by Soliado
     Regarding pinatas. I live in Monterrey. About three years ago, on one of those inane musical/entertainment shows. I saw grown men lining up swinging the sticks at a pinata which was a voluptuous women in black panties and bra. And this at about 11 in the morning. And this is not demeaning to anyone?
DD
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

DD
In reply to this post by Soliado
What I don't understand is why anything that Donald Trump had to say could elicit 65 comments on Borderland Beat.  
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

katattx
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Or even one comment defending, praising or promising to vote for the racist jerk! Rape is a serious violent crime, and equating Mexican with rapist is highly insulting to Mexicans who aren't rapists. And some Mexican men would vote for someone who called them rapists??!! Mind boggling.
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

jlopez
In reply to this post by DD
@DD: There is so much bad news in the media that I, for one, appreciate the comic relief afforded by The Donald's announcement that he is running for president. It ain't a circus without clowns.
DD
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

DD
@jlopez.  Good one my friend.
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
DD
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

DD
In reply to this post by Nuttz
@Nuttz.  Yes, I"M BAAACK.  And be assured I will be watching.  

Very observant of you to notice, I came back on as an administrator, after being asked to do so, several months ago.  I am also a contributor on Forum, just like you, but I am also and have been for some time a reporter on MB, so your remark about "just an administrator" was not very accurate.

I could be wrong in how I interpreted it, but it sounds like you were denigrating the role of an administrator.  I hope I misinterpreted it because if not you are also denigrating the role of the other administrator of the Forum - Chivis.

Lets try to get along.
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

Nuttz
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DD
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Re: Donald Trump Speech Rankles Latin America

DD
In reply to this post by jlopez
@jlopez.  Did you write this?

Donald Trump: A Mexican-American's take on businessman's clownish presidential bid

Recently, in Mexico, the candidates for mayor of the Mexican city of Guadalajara included a famous Mexican clown named Lagrimita.

And in the United States, now that Donald Trump has filed the necessary paperwork with the Federal Election Commission, the ranks of Republican presidential hopefuls expanded to include an anti-Mexican clown.


 “The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems,” Trump said to supporters at Trump Tower where the real estate mogul declared his bid for the GOP nomination. “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best…They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

Given those remarks, it’s too bad we can’t say the same about Trump. As a candidate, he has “lots of problems.” Besides Mexico, the billionaire fired away at China, Japan, South America, and the Middle East. Despite pitching himself as a new kind of candidate, he favors an old fashioned 20th Century protectionism where U.S. companies have to manufacture products within our borders or face confiscatory tariffs and taxes.

    As a Mexican-American, it’s easy to take offense at Trump’s comments on Mexico. What’s difficult is taking them seriously.

Consider this a kind of affirmative action for U.S. workers, and a far cry from the no-excuses, highly competitive spirit of Trump’s television show: NBC’s “The Apprentice.”

In some respects, a Trump candidacy promises to be a fun and refreshing break from the ordinary. He criticizes other candidates by name, plays by his own rules, and actually answers questions from journalists — even if the answers are outrageous.  

As a Mexican-American, it’s easy to take offense at Trump’s comments on Mexico. What’s difficult is taking them seriously.

After all, while it’s true that Trump is new to politics, his reputation as a first-rate opportunist precedes him. It’s impossible to know whether he really believes what he’s saying, or just saying it for effect to woo nativists in the GOP — of which there are now, sadly, a sizable number.

The bright spot to Trump’s rant against Mexican immigrants, it may be that it reveals the Devil’s bargain that so many Republicans feel they have to strike to win elective office. Perhaps he believes that, these days, the only way to get ahead in the Republican Party is to throw some rhetorical red meat at the closed borders, closed minds crowd.

Frankly, I’m not worried about Trump and his tantrums. What is of greater concern to me is that there is a whole chorus of 2016 GOP presidential hopefuls who, in January, came
running when Rep. Steve King, perhaps the most anti-immigrant member of Congress, convened an event in Des Moines called the Iowa Freedom Summit. Trump was there. But so was former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, former Texas Gov. Rick Perry, former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, and Dr. Ben Carson.

King has suggested using electrified fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border to keep out immigrants because “we do that with livestock all the time” and accused so-called Dreamers, those undocumented young people brought here as children, of being drug mules with “calves the size of cantaloupes.”  

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the establishment favorite, wisely skipped King’s event. Recently, Bush announced his own much more viable presidential bid with a bilingual message welcoming Spanish speakers who value freedom and opportunity.

Yet, there is still a resilient faction of the Republican Party that — thumbing its nose at demographic changes — believes they don’t need diversity and insists they can win the White House with the support of white voters alone.

These hardliners are stuck on stupid. If they were in charge of planning the 2016 Republican National Convention, it wouldn’t be in Cleveland, Ohio as scheduled. It would be in Fantasyland.

If you think the United States is being invaded by people who share an inferior culture, take jobs, commit crimes, lower the U.S. standard of living, and defiantly refuse to learn English and otherwise assimilate into the mainstream, then the GOP has a wide selection of candidates for you.

Trump is one of them. Not that he actually knows what he’s talking about. The fact that he could get through a mini-diatribe on people emigrating to the United States without mentioning that they’re being welcomed by U.S. employers — among them farmers, ranchers, hoteliers, restauranteurs, construction firms, and the American homeowner — proves that, despite his knack for self-promotion, for the latest Republican to enter the presidential race, immigration is just another big word.

By the way, in the Guadalajara mayoral race, Lagrimita the Clown came up short, losing to another candidate named Enrique Alfaro. His U.S. counterpart is likely to suffer the same fate.

But, for now, every election needs a punchline. Mr. Trump, you’re perfect for the job. To borrow a phrase: You’re hired.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/06/24/donald-trump-mexican-americans-take.html

DD
PS I don't usually follow Fox News, but this one was worth it.
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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