Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

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DD
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Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

DD
Administrator
A note before you go further.  I was just about to post this when I looked at the most recent post which was by Athena, entitled " Expatriates in drug violence-riddled Mexico: Stay or go?"  I thought, "hey I might better read this before I post something about hanging narco killers.  I read it and acting like the fool that I have been called many times here goes the "post message" button.

I have been reviewing comments posted on BB over the last year and many if not most relate to two questions;

(1)What type of human being can do these things to a fellow human being?
(2)What is the solution to stopping the violence in Mexico?

I am including the discussion of question #1 in what is intended to be primarily a post on capital punishment because I feel the two questions are closely tied together, especially in Mexico.  I say "especially in Mexico" because the Mexican constitution is heavily slanted toward rehabilitation of the criminal rather than punishment.

 Article 22 provides:
"The death penalty remains prohibited for political crimes, and also for most others. It may only be imposed for treason to the Nation in a foreign war, for parricide, for homicide with treachery, premeditation or profit; for arson, kidnapping, highway robbery, piracy, or serious criminal offenses against military order.  

To me, the definition of when the death penalty is allowed is broad enough to fit most of the murders committed by cartels, but the commentators and the debate during adoption of the 1917 Constitution argue otherwise.  So in all likelihood, the constitution would have to be changed.

There are many provisions of the Constitution which are really a joke.  Some examples of the jokes;

The same Article 22 also provides that; "- Penalties of mutilation, dishonor, branding, whipping, blows with a stick, torture of any type, excessive fines, confiscation of possessions, or any other penalties in excess of what is necessary to punish the offense remain prohibited."

Article 18 provides "There shall be detention only for crimes that merit punishment of the individual. The sites of detention shall be distinct from prisons for the serving of sentences, and they shall be completely separated from each other." (40% of the people in MX prisons have never been to trial, they are only being "detained" with the convicted criminals.They are not separated as const. mandates)

Article 19 provides; "All mistreatment in apprehension or in prison, all discomforts that are inflicted without legal motive, and all fees or contributions (BRIBES) in jails are abuses that will be prohibited by law and curbed by the authorities. (Parenthesis and emphasis added by DD)

Article 21 Mx Constitution The performance of police institutions will be governed by the principles of legality, efficiency, professionalism, and honor.


Ok, enough jokes, lets get to the psycho's and the public hangings.

Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others and the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions. They are generally regarded as callous, selfish, dishonest, arrogant, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic.  No psychiatric or psychological organization has sanctioned a diagnosis of "psychopathy" itself. (Wikipedia definition)  Despite the similarity of the names, psychopaths are rarely psychotic.

To me those characteristics define a sicario.

Although psychopathy is associated with and in some cases defined by conduct problems, criminality or violence, most psychopaths are not violent.  According to one expert, there may be as much as 1% to 2% of the general population that could by defined as a psychopathic.  It could be the used car salesman lying through his teeth when selling you that dream car, and then laughing with his friends how lucky you were to get it off the lot in one piece.  No remorse.
Some experts have described psychopaths as "intraspecies predators".

Can a Kid Be a Psychopath?


The groundbreaking HBO documentary "Child of Rage" years ago showed how horrific abuse and neglect could leave a child unable to bond with other people, turning them into children "without conscience, who can hurt or even kill without remorse." In other words: the child becomes a psychopath.

But what about the kids who aren't abused? What about the ones who, for no discernible reason, do horrible things to other people?

The New York Times article mentions the case of 9-year-old Jeffrey Bailey Jr., who in 1986 pushed a 3-year-old into the deep end of a Florida swimming pool and then pulled up a chair to watch the child drown; after the toddler died, Bailey got up and went home.

    In 1993, Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, both 10 years old, took 2-year-old James Bulger by the hand and led the trusting toddler out of a shopping mall in Liverpool, England. Once away from the mall, they spent hours torturing him before beating him to death, reports said.
    In 1998, Joshua Phillips' mother was cleaning his room when she discovered the dead body of their 8-year-old neighbor, Maddie Clifton, under his bed. The 14-year-old Phillips says he accidentally hit the girl in the eye with a baseball bat and then panicked when she screamed, so he took her to his room and beat and then stabbed her until she stopped.
    Alyssa Bustamente was 15 when she confessed to luring her 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten into a nearby forest and killing her in 2009. "I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead," Bustamante wrote in her diary at the time. "It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the 'ohmygawd I can't do this' feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol." In February, she was sentenced to life in prison.
    Eric Harris -- who, with his friend Dylan Klebold, killed 13 people and injured 24 others when they opened fire at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999 -- had several of the hallmarks of being a psychopath. As ABC News points out, he was described as "controlling, manipulative, and sadistic, but very much in touch with reality."

"Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Frank Ochberg, a former FBI psychiatrist who led the counseling team after Columbine, told ABC News. And, unlike with psychosis (when people are delusional or out-of-touch with reality), psychopaths know exactly what they're doing -- they just don't care how it affects others.

It's not as if these kids simply lack a moral compass. In "Child of Rage," 6-year-old Beth opens her blue eyes wide and calmly tells her psychiatrist how she'd like to hurt, and even kill, her adoptive parents -- a Methodist preacher and his wife -- and her biological brother. She's calm and conversational as she describes how she has deliberately harmed and killed animals, how she drives pins into her brother and sexually molests him, how she repeatedly slammed his head into a cement floor and only stopped because someone caught her.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/kid-psychopath-221400341.html

We have all seen the videos here on BB of teenagers, in some cases very young teenagers beating someone with a bat until they are dead, or using a chainsaw to decapitate someone, laughing all the time.

It is not my purpose here to debate cure or treatment for psychopathy, but rather to decide what to do with them after they are caught.  According to some experts, there is little evidence of a cure or effective treatment for psychopathy; no medications can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy might become more adept at manipulating others and more likely to commit crime.  

Havana succintly tied my two questions together; (1) psychopaths and (2)punishment.
Havana--"studies do indicate the death penalty is a viable deterrent of violent crime but it is not in cases of sociopathic and psychopathic personalities. Sicarios probably fall into those categories."

Here are a few of the typical comments posted on BB regarding stopping the violence;

The Magician.  "There has to be a solution, but who has it?"

Dratter."what can be done ANYTHING, WHEN,HOW,WHO, this mess makes me
 sick."

Kylesam"I do support the death penalty in theory."
I

Chivis. "death penalty...I am beginning to think you are a very smart young man, especially when you agree with me!"

dario.  "We badly need the death penalty like Texas."

Chivo -- "If Mexico treated the scum bags like Malaysia there wouldnt be any narcos in Mexico!"
I believe it is way, way past the point of no return... So then what is the solution to stop the cancer from spreading"
YES, the ONLY real solution is death for ALL SCUM NARCOS!

Frontera.  "Death squads in the 1960's in Mexico worked to get rid of and stop Communism,

OhTheCalIsOnYou.  "Would death squads work to solve a lot (not all) of the narco stuff going on ? I'm wondering if this wouldn't stop a lot of the crap in Mexico from happening."

Pinchegringo. "it wouldn't surprise me if Mexico found a few US soldiers in their country without their permission."

cHIVO. "I hope that the U.S military gets a shot at the scum bag criminal cartels... ALL of them need to be exterminated like rats from the face of the earth..."

Those comments from some of the most respected and knowledgeable commentators on BB boil down to 4 proposed solutions to solving the violence problem in Mx:

1. Chivo's "kill the scumbags", "shoot them on sight" doesn't seem to me to be a practical solution. (@Chivo. I didn't include that quote about shooting on sight, but I think I have read it in some of your posts before).  

2. Death squads have been mentioned as a solution many times.  IMO opinion that is not a practical solution.  In addition to it being a gross violation of the rule of law which Mexico desperately needs to adopt, it is not public enough.  For death squads to work, their work has to kept secret and only spread through rumors and whispers.

3. Bringing in the US military, invited or uninvited, to combat the cartels and destroy them. IMO that proposal has so many holes in it and is so unrealistic I am not going to give it a lot of discussion, but merely point out the flaws in the proposal.  First, a recent poll showed 82% of Mexicans are opposed to US troops coming to their aid.  Their reluctance to allow US troops on Mx. soil probably has something to do with the other 13 times the US has invaded it's "little brother" south of the border.  Second, the record of success  of the US in it's last 2 wars Iraq and Afghanistan is not very encouraging.  I am working on an article about US intervention in other countries since WW2 that I hope to post soon. That post will further my argument that US Military intervention is not a good idea. The record is not very good.  Although the "death squads" of US special forces in Mexico's "dirty war" in the 60's and 70's had some success in taking out some Communist insurgent leaders, those insurgents were never really a threat to MX and not nearly on the scale of the cartels.

(Speaking of the US invasions of Mexico, probably the worst sore spot for the Mexican people was the Mexican-American war which ended on Sept.26, 1847 when Mexico City fell to the US Army.  In the treaty that was negotiated Mexico ceded to the United States Upper California and New Mexico. This was known as the Mexican Cession and included present-day Arizona and New Mexico and parts of Utah, Nevada, and Colorado (see Article V of the treaty). Mexico relinquished all claims to Texas and recognized the Rio Grande as the southern boundary with the United States.  Negotiations drug on for several months.  Gold was discovered at Sutters Mill in California on Jan. 26, 1848.  The treaty was then rushed through and signed on Feb.2, 1848, seven days after the gold discovery. I have always been a little skeptical of the timing of finalizing that treaty giving California to the US.)

4. Change the Mexican Constitution and implement the death penalty.  
Death Penalty?  A deterrent?  I have been in agreement with those calling for a death penalty in Mexico.  I also have been in agreement with those who believe the death penalty would not deter the sicarios and other canon fodder of the cartels from pursuing their chosen way of life.

But, maybe it is time to think outside the box.  The current ideas and policies to deter violence and drug trafficking are not working.  

In Nuevo Leon state there were more than 685 drug-related killings by mid-May, according to media tallies. This put it ahead of even Chihuahua state, with 560 gangland slayings

San Fernando Migrant Massacre 72 Tortured And Slaughtered
San Fernando Bus Massacres 193 Tortured And Slaughtered
Taxo 56 Tortured And Slaughtered
Monterrey 51 Tortured And Slaughtered
Monterrey Casino Royale Fire 61 Burned Alive
Mexican Marina Torture Killing Videos
Torreon News Paper Fire Attack
Nuevo Laredo News Paper Attack
Apodaca Prison 44 Tortured And Murdered 30 Zetas Escape
Peten, Guatamala Massacre 27 Tortured And Beheaded
Nuevo Laredo's Colosio Bridge Torture And Hanging 9
Jalisco 18 Innocent Tortured And Slaughtered
Cadereyta 49 Innocent Tortured And Slaughtered


First, while the death penalty  would  not be a deterrent to those who face possible death every day, it would be an appropriate punishment for the most horrific crimes.  The Mexican constitution emphasizes rehabilitation as the goal of the criminal justice system.  That needs to be changed for certain crimes.

Secondly, I know this proposal is really thinking outside the box.  But, maybe it is time to think outside the box.  

I PROPOSE A PUBLIC HANGING AS PUNISHMENT FOR CARTEL MURDERS. Not a Sadam Hussein private style hanging.  but wait until you have a big group of convicted narco killers, a 100, 50, whatever, and hang them publicly at the same time on the Zocola (the main plaza in Mexco city).

The cartels commit many if not most of their horrific attrocities to shock and instill fear amongst the populace, and to show their power and control.  If the government inflicted this horrific punishment on convicted Cartel killers, it's purpose would be to shock and instill fear amongst the cartels, and inspire respect for the rule of law in the populace and show it's power and control.

After a few of those, I think capos might think about taking their money and retiring or running.  Some sicarios might take up other lines of work.  A bunch of halcones and young hoods might look for legitimate jobs.  The public in general would come to respect the rule of law.

If the govt. wanted to mock the cartels a little bit, a sign much like a narcomanta might be posted at the gallows.  
FALSE ADVERTISING; "The Zeta operations group wants you, soldier or ex-soldier," one said. "We offer a good salary, food and attention for your family. Don't suffer hunger and abuse anymore."
 "The govt. and people of Mx are truly sorry if you were seduced by this False Advertising and joined that criminal organization.  This is what could happen to you if you did.



I know the human rights groups would scream their heads off, but if the trials were open to the public and the press, fair and open, with a fair appeals process, then Mexico would be following the rule of law.  As to its effect on young people, it might instill a respect for the law and what is right and wrong at an early age.  That can't be a bad thing.

I know it sounds crazy.  That is what I thougt too when I first started thinking about it.  But the more I thought about, I began to think "Why not". It would an appropriate punishment to fit the attrocities these scum have committed.  It would be bold and strong move and might move Mexico along a path to law and order much faster than the decades that most people predict. Maybe no other country in the world could, but with conditions as they are in Mexico today, I think Mexico could pull it off.  Don't confuse what I am proposing with punishments in Singapore and Malaysia which has gotten a lot of attention on the Forum lately. Those stories were about death for dealing drugs.  I am talking about hanging for convictions of "cartel related homicides"  Ultimately maybe a lady like Chivis could walk across the plaza at 10PM and feel safe as she did in Singapore.

The proposal might even win a Presidential election if it were presented in the proper manner.  If you were trailing in the polls by 20 points 5 weeks before the election, what would you have to lose?

Remember the quote attributed to El Lazca on recent narcomanta;
"The government must make a pact with us because if not we will have to overthrow it and take power by force."

Think about it and tell me what you think or a better solution.
DD  


Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Baggy
Nice post. bit heavy will all those 'words' jkjk
The answer is EDUCATION.

The dumber a person is the easier it is to coax them to do your bidding.
If some guy from a cartel finds a homeless 14 yr old,hungry... starved for attention and says, ill be your friend, ill buy you food and give you a roof over your head,i just need you to HELP me when the time comes.. see theres this guy who killed my wife and ill never be able to exact my revenge cause he knows my face,But he doesnt know you my 'friend'
would you do me a favour and kill him?i promise you wont get caught cause i have a plan and the police are so stupid they couldnt catch a cold if they were standing naked in the rain..
i hope yas get the point im tryin to make.. if not sorry its my brains day off today!

Havin said that the death penalty would possibly be a deterent if it was kept for exclusive use on politicians and Capos n Dons.
Problem is im sure most realise that the reason its never been enforced by the politicos is cause they are the ones whos heads should rightfully be FIRST ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.
that aint treason right?im not a mexican citizen + like my neck

As for what method? take a look how they doit in iran,their 'public hangings' are almost somthing to marvel at (cept they usually only kill drug users or homosexuals and the occasional trafficker) they have a beam hooked up to a crane and the ropes tied to said beam,they do them 3 or 5 at a time.. Crane goes up and feet dangle n dance. Wont bother with links we see plenty blood and death as it is
Patriotism is a propaganda tool used to make people blind to the lies of their government through unquestioning devotion.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Pinchegringo
In reply to this post by DD
Excellent post DD and it will take people like you and the other contributors to get this "think tank" on wheels.  As it stands now, there are just arrests, occasional killing of a higher-up and very minimal progress unfortunately.

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm not a supporter of thinking that education on drugs is the answer.  Most of these people are grown ups who know right from wrong, who know that drugs wreck lives yet still continue their horrific crimes so people think that putting these guys in some classroom with tons of books is going to help someone that just lopped off someone's head with a chainsaw?  That can not be fixed.

Looking forward to the comments on this thread and thanks for the shout out.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

primus421
In reply to this post by DD
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by DD
Excellente..DD  but then again I already told you that...good work my friend.

last year congress was opening discussions about the death penalty.  They were discussing captial punishment for specific crimes, most that would apply to Org Crime, but also corruption and collusion for those fools that are in position of fiduciary.  but it was all talk  
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

katattx
In reply to this post by DD
Excellent article!! Thank you for the work and thought you put into this. It was a pleasure to read.

I do agree with the idea of public hangings to instill a healthy respect for the rule of law.  However, as Mexico stands today, the "law" enforcement is so corrupt, Im afraid there would be a significant number of innocents being hung. That part bothers me. But if we could ensure beyond a doubt, that only active cartel criminals were being hung then I would be ALL FOR IT!!
DD
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

DD
Administrator
Thank you katattx for the kind words.  I share your concern about innocents being convicted.  However, steps are already being taken under the Merida Initiative to improve the transparency of trials in MX.  Some Mx. judges, prosecutors, and lawyers are being trained in the US form and procedures of trials.   If you have ever watched the documentary "Presumed Guilty", you will realize how foreign the concept of US trials are to these people.  Stories that I have read about the training taking place under Merida talk about how hard it is for them to grasp the concept of a open adversarial system, but with enough teaching they can certainly learn it and see that it is a more just system (most of the time).

If you haven't watched "Presumed Guilty", I recommend it. It's for sale on DVDs, but a you tube free view is available at

DD
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
DD
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DD
Administrator
In reply to this post by Chivis
thank you chivis.  that means a lot coming from you.
DD
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Chivis
Administrator
and great you posted the vid of Tonio's plight again.  I can't even remember how many times I watched it and have seen something new to me each time....
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

JesusTheMoose
In reply to this post by Baggy
Baggy, I've been in university level math and science classes with gangbangers. Criminality is a disease of the will and not a byproduct of poverty. Even when you are poor you have the dignity and faculties to make good choices instead of bad ones.
The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by DD
Hey  DD...I am off to the hospital but I saw something interesting on twitter.  It says Mexicans are speaking about innocents getting killed and want the government to identify exactly WHO is doing the killing.  I assume other than cartel.

this brings to the forefront the death squads.  keep your eye out for any info....thanks
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Baggy
In reply to this post by JesusTheMoose
ahh people seem to be taking my comment on education a little too serious, i know most drug dealers know the diff between right and wrong, but im sayin its usually the extremely stupid who are recruited and indoctrinated simply because they are told what they want to hear.. all i meant was if a persons smart enough to know when they are being manipulated then this problem wouldnt be as massive as it is.. education wont fix this overnight and it wont stop dumbfucks from believing shit like santa la muerte will protect them etc etc... kinda like al qaida however you spell it using dumb 12 yr old heroin addicts to blow themselves up cause its gods will. if they werent dumb as fuck they wouldnt fall for that..
that make a little more sense?
Patriotism is a propaganda tool used to make people blind to the lies of their government through unquestioning devotion.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Baggy
In reply to this post by Chivis
chivis stay safe n hope to see you back here healthy n happy. take care!
unless youre going there to visit somone that is...
Patriotism is a propaganda tool used to make people blind to the lies of their government through unquestioning devotion.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Chivis
Administrator
thanks Baggy.... I wish I was just visiting.  They have begun an intensive treatment for 4-5 weeks everyday.  Honestly it leaves me in bad shape for hours but we are hopeful being this agressive will be the ticket.


DD... I am sending you an article I just wrote...  its a draft but pretty much "it"  I sent it to Havana and she has weighed in...now your turn.. :) I will put the working title in the subject "MEXICO: The Killing of Innocents"  sometimes you get busy and I need a quick turn around if possible.  

also....Our Coahuila Prom for Special Needs Teens is the third week of June.  I have invited your city.  also: Monclova-Allende-PN-Acuna-Zaragosa-Saltillo... I pulled out all stops.... Filet Mignon will be served...  nothing too good for my kids. We invited them to stay at a church ranch but the parents are too scared narcos will come and create a massacre.

same as last year....they are just too scared.  that is so sad to me.  do you know of security companies whose guards are armed?  it is a safe place...halfway between Zaragosa and Acuna.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
DD
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

DD
Administrator
I haven't gotten your email with your innocents article yet and I will look at it as soon as I get it and offer any comments i may have.  Doubt that I can improve on anything you wrote.
I have a file on death squads with just notes, and bits and pieces but most of it is just related to Juarez or Columbia and El Salvador.  I am attaching those notes.   It does have some insight into how they select victims.  Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but even though I am still looking, I haven't found much on social cleansing, death squads in Mx.
I don't know the thrust of your article, but the attachment that Overmex attached to his post about with the analysis of the CIA and Army training manuals has some bearing on this subject.
I will do some checking about armed security guards here.  Try to do it today if I can find anybody on a Sat.


From: Chivis [via Borderland Beat] <[hidden email]>
To: DD <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

thanks Baggy.... I wish I was just visiting.  They have begun an intensive treatment for 4-5 weeks everyday.  Honestly it leaves me in bad shape for hours but we are hopeful being this agressive will be the ticket.


DD... I am sending you an article I just wrote...  its a draft but pretty much "it"  I sent it to Havana and she has weighed in...now your turn.. :) I will put the working title in the subject "MEXICO: The Killing of Innocents"  sometimes you get busy and I need a quick turn around if possible.  

also....Our Coahuila Prom for Special Needs Teens is the third week of June.  I have invited your city.  also: Monclova-Allende-PN-Acuna-Zaragosa-Saltillo... I pulled out all stops.... Filet Mignon will be served...  nothing too good for my kids. We invited them to stay at a church ranch but the parents are too scared narcos will come and create a massacre.

same as last year....they are just too scared.  that is so sad to me.  do you know of security companies whose guards are armed?  it is a safe place...halfway between Zaragosa and Acuna.
As always, just my dos centavos….
       



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death squads.txt (8K) Download Attachment
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Chivis
Administrator
its there amigo.

did you read the universal articles?

I remember back in 2010 it was well documented that gays were being executed.

you'll see what i have

the wiki stuff is very interesting....thank you
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

carwreck
In reply to this post by DD
The best way to deal with excessive criminality is to have a justice system that can deal with it. If people know they can get away with committing crimes, they are more inclined to do it. Executing people isn't going to do anything. They execute traffickers in the Middle East, so the traffickers might just fight to the death when they are confronted. Notice, they were still trafficking. An American drug trafficker is taking a calculated risk. They weigh possible consequences and the likelihood of getting caught against profit, knowing they are in for a long prison term if they get caught. But if you can just threaten or pay your way out of being punished, why not be a criminal? If I knew I could make 50 million dollars importing cocaine into the US (being a US citizen), and had say, a 5% chance of getting caught, I would do it. But the risk, in reality, would be higher than that. All it might take is one person getting arrested and squealing. The potential consequences aren't worth the profits to me. I'd rather be poor and out of prison than rich and serving 30 years. Strong law enforcement and legal system is the deterrent for people like me that have no ethical issue with drugs. People that have no problem torturing and killing need the same deterrent. Whether you execute them or not, they will be removed from the rest of society. If you can't do that, you can't deal with the problem at all.
DD
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

DD
Administrator
@carwreck.  You are making the same mistake that many people make.  Confusing stopping drug trafficking and stopping violence.  I didn't say anything proposing a death sentence for drug trafficking.  What I am talking about is the appropriate punishment for this:

San Fernando Migrant Massacre 72 Tortured And Slaughtered
San Fernando Bus Massacres 193 Tortured And Slaughtered
Taxo 56 Tortured And Slaughtered
Monterrey 51 Tortured And Slaughtered
Monterrey Casino Royale Fire 61 Burned Alive
Mexican Marina Torture Killing Videos
Torreon News Paper Fire Attack
Nuevo Laredo News Paper Attack
Apodaca Prison 44 Tortured And Murdered 30 Zetas Escape
Peten, Guatamala Massacre 27 Tortured And Beheaded
Nuevo Laredo's Colosio Bridge Torture And Hanging 9
Jalisco 18 Innocent Tortured And Slaughtered
Cadereyta 49 Innocent Tortured And Slaughtered


And many, many other horrible grotesque murders.

All of the crimes above were done primarily to intimidate and cause fear in the public and make them feel helpless and at the mercy of the cartels and prove the cartels can do whatever they want with impunity.

Hanging would be, IMO, an appropriate punishment for those that committed those crimes.  PUBLIC MASS HANGINGS  would be a strong statement by the government that it will not continue to tolerate these acts and maybe give the people some hope when they see their government taking a such a strong position against violence.  

I agree with you that Strong law enforcement and legal system is a deterrent.  But that is years, if not decades away in Mexico.  Something drastic has to be done now to stop the horrendous violence happening every day here in Mx.

DD


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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

Smurf
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Re: Death Penalty? SI!! How-- Lethal injection? Gas Chamber? Electric Chair? or PULIC HANGINGS?

DD
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@Smurf. The reason I included the link to Presumed Guilty was exactly to show how much the judicial process would have to change.  But I also pointed out that as part of Merida Initiative funded by the US that Mexican judges, prosecutors, and lawyers are right now going through training to change the travesty shown in that video into an open court process, with trials being held in a real court room, open to the press and public, with an adversarial process of prosecutors and defense attorneys.  Though the US judicial system is not always fair and innocents are wrongly convicted occasionally, it is still better that what is shown in "Presumed Guilty."

I agree with you that just changing the law and allowing the death penalty would not do much to deter DTO's from committing atrocities.  But how that death penalty is carried out could well be a deterrent.  Rather than being done behind closed doors in a gas chamber,, or by injection, or even the elec. chair, a 100 or so bodies hung in a public square for all the country to see is a different thing.  I think the DTOs would look in horror and dread the possibility that they might end up humiliated in that manner.  I think the people in Mx. would let out a "grita" "Si, we will fight back" that be heard world wide .  
DD
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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