DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

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DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

Chivis
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This post was updated on .
El Salvador is a relatively small but growing player in the drug trafficking business, serving as a recipient and storage point along the Pacific Coast, and a bridge via the Pan-American Highway, the Fonseca Gulf, and small roads from Honduras that cut across the relatively unpopulated mountains. Local transport groups have their roots in the country’s civil war, where many ran weapons and contraband from Honduras and Nicaragua to the rebel groups. These networks now service larger criminal gangs, mostly from Mexico, moving drugs from as far south as Panama. Compounding the country’s problems are powerful street gangs, known as “maras,” which help make El Salvador one of the most dangerous places in the world, with a homicide rate of 63 per 100,000, according to the El Salvador Police.  Videos where article begins of CA gangs.


In an effort to increase its capacity to crack down on Latin American drug syndicates, the U.S. government has set up a handful of DEA commando teams to carry out attacks across Central America and the Caribbean.


As The New York Times reported earlier this week, the so-called FAST teams, which is short for Foreign-deployed Advisory Support Team, were initially established in 2008 to go after drug traffickers in Afghanistan, but have since been deployed much closer to home.
 
“The DEA [Drug Enforcement Administration] now has five commando-style squads it has been quietly deploying for the past several years to Western Hemisphere nations — including Haiti, Honduras, the Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and Belize — that are battling drug cartels, according to documents and interviews with law enforcement officials,” the newspaper writes.
 
The role of the groups, which each number ten agents, is not one of passive observation. As the Times reports, one of the FAST teams participated in a recent gunfight in Honduras in which two alleged drug traffickers were killed, and one Honduran security official was wounded.
 
The U.S. government has long played a direct, though covert, role in combating drug traffickers in their home countries, and the FAST teams are in many ways the heir to that tradition.
 
As Mark Bowden documented in his book Killing Pablo, soldiers with the U.S. Army were instrumental in the effort to track down and ultimately kill Pablo Escobar, the erstwhile head of Colombia’s Medellin Cartel and considered by many to be the most powerful drug trafficker in history. More recently, the DEA played a significant role in the tracking of Mexican boss Arturo Beltran Leyva, who was killed in a shootout with Mexican marines in December 2009. Additionally, a program similar to FAST was used in Peru and Bolivia in the 1980s.
 
Despite the long history of similar efforts, the deployment of the FAST teams is not without its risks. One is that of a nationalist backlash. While the nations mentioned may not be as automatically suspicious of American designs as Mexico, reports of U.S. agents running around the country are likely to inspire resentment, especially if there is any collateral damage.
 
U.S. security agencies also have a long history of abuse in Central America. The U.S. military was instrumental in training the death squads that terrorized much of the isthmus during the 1980s, but the widespread ill repute of the gringo empire extends back far longer; American troops carried out scores of occupations of different Central American nations during the 20th century. In one of the more recently disclosed examples of American misconduct, government scientists infected more than 700 Guatemalans with syphilis during the 1940s. The lingering cloud of such a history could make local populations more suspicious of the FAST teams.
 
Since the FAST teams are also carrying out a training function, it’s worth asking what kind of vetting process will accompany the enhanced skills imparted to the local agents. In the past, U.S.-trained units in Mexico and elsewhere have subsequently deserted so as to work for illegal gangs. The Times report offers no indication of any defections, but nor does it say that there haven’t been any such incidents. Furthermore, the program has only been in place for three years, so this is a problem that could emerge well into the future.
 
It’s also not clear that the FAST teams represent a significant attempt to address the deeper defects in state function that allow the drug trade to flourish in Central America. While the ability to track a wanted trafficker or win a firefight against superior numbers is both exciting and useful, these are ultimately insignificant compared to the larger obstacles, such as an inefficient trial system, a dysfunctional prison network, a weak labor market, and paltry tax collection. The FAST teams’ training could play a role in creating marginally more capable local security forces, but even in a best-case scenario, with such small teams, the overall impact would be negligible.
 
Finally, as analysts like James Boswell have pointed out, the lack of openness of the FAST program continues an unfortunate pattern. Time and again in recent years, official schemes to crack down on organized crime have been initiated in a veil of secrecy that is eventually breached, leaving everyone involved with egg on their face. Sometimes, the plan itself is not so horribly conceived--the U.S. drone flights over Mexican territory, which were made public earlier this year, is a good example of that. In other cases, such as the ongoing Fast and Furious scandal, the programs were ill-planned, and the secrecy allowed a poor idea to become a reality.
 
But in all of the cases, the fallout is worse because the governments initially tried to keep them secret. A bit of secrecy is certainly required in counter-drug operations, but too often, the clandestine nature of a given program stems more from habit than necessity.

Origins of Central American Gangs
Shocking Videos the best of which is here
others
 here and here

and from Al Jazeera:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuC4cFT0LKY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insightcrime.org%2Fcountry-profiles%2Fguatemala%2Fitem%2F613-guatemala-country-profile&feature=player_embedded


 
The MS-13 was founded in the “barrios” of Los Angeles in the 1980s. As a result of the civil wars wracking El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaragua, refugees flooded northward. Many of them wound up in Los Angeles, living among the mostly Mexican barrios of East Los Angeles. While the Mexican gangs reined in the local underworld, the war-hardened immigrants quickly organized themselves into competing groups, the strongest of which was called the Mara Salvatrucha.
 
The gang was initially composed of refugees from El Salvador in the Pico Union neighborhood, which is where the name comes from: “mara” is a Central American term for gang; “salva” refers to El Salvador; “trucha,” which means “trout” in English, is a slang term for “clever” or “sharp.” However, with the concentration of Spanish speakers in Los Angeles, the gang expanded into other nationalities and then into other cities.
 
The gang’s rivals took note. One, known as the Mexican Mafia, or “la M” for short, one of the most storied of California’s gangs, decided to integrate the MS into their regional latino gang alliance. Called the “Sureños,” the alliance included many prominent gangs and stretched into much of the southwest of the United States and Mexico. It afforded the MS more protection in the barrios and in prison. In return, the MS provided hitmen and added the number 13, the position M occupies in the alphabet, to their name. Thus, the MS became the MS-13.
 
By the end of the 1990s, the United States tried to tackle what they were starting to recognize was a significant criminal threat. Partly as a way to deal with MS-13, and partly as a product of the get-tough immigration push toward the end of the Clinton presidency, the government began a program of deportation of foreign-born residents convicted of a wide range of crimes. This enhanced deportation policy, in turn, vastly increased the number of gang members being sent home to El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, and elsewhere. According to one estimate, 20,000 criminals returned to Central American between 2000 and 2004. That trend continues. One U.S. law enforcement official told InSight that the U.S. sends 100 ex-convicts back per week just to El Salvador.
 
Central American governments, some of the poorest and most ineffective in the Western Hemisphere, were not capable of dealing with the criminal influx, nor were they properly forewarned by American authorities. The convicts, who often had only the scarcest connection to their countries of birth, had little chance of integrating into the legitimate society. They often turned to what they knew best: gang life.
 
In this way the decision to use immigration policy as an anti-gang tool spawned the virulent growth of the gang in the Northern Triangle: El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Numbers vary but the U.S. Southern Command says there are as many as 70,000 gang members in the Northern Triangle. The proliferation of gangs has accompanied a spike in murder rates. The area has the highest homicide rate in the world of a region not at war.
 
Of these gangs, the MS-13 is the largest in the region. Central American immigration to other portions of the U.S., such as New York City and the Washington D.C. area, helped foster the spread of MS-13 within the U.S. as well. MS-13’s links to illegal human trafficking from Central America has helped solidify the gang’s place in Mexico’s crowded criminal landscape, especially in the southern border region.
 
Modus Operandi
 
On paper, the MS-13 has a hierarchy, a language, and a code of conduct. In reality, the gang is loosely organized, with cells across Central America, Mexico, and the United States, but without any single recognized leader. The leaders are known as “palabreros,” loosely translated as “those who have the word.” These leaders control what are known as “cliques,” the cells that operate in specific territories.
 
These cliques have their own leaders and hierarchies. Most cliques have a “primera palabra” and “segunda palabra,” in reference to first and second-in-command. Some cliques are transnational; some fight with others and have more violent reputations. Some cliques control smaller cliques in a given region. They also have treasurers and other small functionary positions.
 
MS-13’s principal activities vary a great deal from one region to another. In Central America, where the gang’s reach and size (relative to overall proportions) is largest, MS-13’s operations are more diversified. This includes extortion, kidnapping and controlling the neighborhood illegal drug market. Their crimes, such as extorting the bus companies, are arguably more disruptive on a daily basis to more people than any other criminal activity in the region. In the U.S., in contrast, the gang operates much more like another American street gang, with an emphasis on local drug sales and “protecting” urban turf.
 
The MS-13 also maintains its relationship with the “M.” The MS-13 have designated certain middle-men to pass tribute to the gang in Los Angeles. Some ascertain that the two organizations have formed an international triangle of power of sorts that runs from the Los Angeles area to El Salvador and back through the Washington D.C. - Virginia corridor.
 
With their historical roots in Central America and the cities of the United States, much of the recent growth of MS-13 has been concentrated in Mexico. The gang is strongest in the border region with Guatemala, especially the state of Chiapas. Drawn by the tens of thousands of Central American migrants seeking illicit passage through Mexico to the United States, MS-13 has developed into one of the foremost players in the nation’s thriving human trafficking industry.
 
Thanks in large part to their shared territory, MS-13 have also begun to carve out relationships with some transnational drug trafficking networks. In Central America, MS-13 provides crucial manpower for the foreign organizations, helping gangs like the Zetas and the Sinaloa cartel sell drugs in the local market, intimidate rivals, and carry out executions. The group’s role in human trafficking in southern Mexico has also allowed them to forge business relationships with some of the larger criminal groups, such as the Zetas, that have branched into that field.
 
To be sure, at its most potent, the MS-13 leadership can control the actions of these cliques from afar. This fluid, diffuse structure makes the gang resistant to any single government’s attempt to crack down on it. Arrest the “primera palabra” and the “segunda” quickly assumes control. Throughout its existence, in fact, various governments’ attempts to reduce the threat posed by MS-13 has instead often had the perverse impact of spreading the threat posed by the gang.
 
Perhaps the most obvious example is the aforementioned policy of deportations of foreign nationals committed of crimes in the U.S. But Central American governments have also contributed: the “mano dura,” or “iron fist” policies, which jailed youths based on appearance and association as well criminal activities, became the norm following their implementation by Salvadoran President Antonio Saca in the early 2000s. As a result, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala saw their prison populations overflow with members of MS-13 and other gangs.
 
Because the brittle prison systems in each of those nations was unprepared for the sudden influx of thousands of violent and organized gang members, violence rose sharply inside jails. In response, authorities separated the gangs, but this opened up space for them to reorganize. In prison, for example, they are given a freedom and safety that is no longer possible on the outside. They frequently have access to cellular phones, computers, and television. As a result, MS-13’s Central American branches have been able to rebuild their organizational structures from the inside of the prisons walls, as well as expand their capacity to carry out crimes such as kidnappings, car robberies, extortion schemes, and other criminal activities.
 
The gang is now in its second or third generation and the cycle appears difficult to break. Youth enter as they often see it as their only way through the rising violence around them. Entry is often equally violent, including a “13-second” beat-down that can often end in tragedy even before one’s gang-banging career gets started. Older members seeking to break free find internal rules they might have created keeping many of them from separating. Some cliques, for example, penalize desertion by killing the person. Even if they can break free of their membership, their tattoos have often branded them for life.



 
Resources:
Al Jazeera (video)
Insight
“Gangs in Central America,” Congressional Research Service, 3 January 2011. (pdf)
“The MS-13 and 18th Street Gangs: Emerging Transnational Gang Threats?” Congressional Research Service, 30 January 2008. (pdf)
Victor Ronquillo and Jorge Fernandez Menendez, “De los Maras a los Zetas,” (Mexico City, 2007).
 
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
DD
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DD
Buela, good story.  You said:

"U.S. security agencies also have a long history of abuse in Central America. The U.S. military was instrumental in training the death squads that terrorized much of the isthmus during the 1980s, but the widespread ill repute of the gringo empire extends back far longer; American troops carried out scores of occupations of different Central American nations during the 20th century. In one of the more recently disclosed examples of American misconduct, government scientists infected more than 700 Guatemalans with syphilis during the 1940s. The lingering cloud of such a history could make local populations more suspicious of the FAST teams. "

I know that is not the primary thrust of the article, but it is almost an understatement.  Below is one list (though not complete such as involvement in Mexico's "dirty war) of CIA involvement in Latin American over roughly the last 50 years:
1954

Guatemala — CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

1959

Haiti — The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

1961

Dominican Republic — The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo’s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Ecuador — The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.

1963

Dominican Republic — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.

Ecuador — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

1964

Brazil — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America’s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco’s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.

1965

Dominican Republic — A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country’s elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.

1973

Chile — The CIA overthrows and assassinates Salvador Allende, Latin America’s first democratically elected socialist leader. The problems begin when Allende nationalizes American-owned firms in Chile. ITT offers the CIA $1 million for a coup (reportedly refused). The CIA replaces Allende with General Augusto Pinochet, who will torture and murder thousands of his own countrymen in a crackdown on labor leaders and the political left.

1979

El Salvador — An idealistic group of young military officers, repulsed by the massacre of the poor, overthrows the right-wing government. However, the U.S. compels the inexperienced officers to include many of the old guard in key positions in their new government. Soon, things are back to "normal" — the military government is repressing and killing poor civilian protesters. Many of the young military and civilian reformers, finding themselves powerless, resign in disgust.

Nicaragua — Anastasios Samoza II, the CIA-backed dictator, falls. The Marxist Sandinistas take over government, and they are initially popular because of their commitment to land and anti-poverty reform. Samoza had a murderous and hated personal army called the National Guard. Remnants of the Guard will become the Contras, who fight a CIA-backed guerilla war against the Sandinista government throughout the 1980s.

1980

El Salvador — The Archbishop of San Salvador, Oscar Romero, pleads with President Carter "Christian to Christian" to stop aiding the military government slaughtering his people. Carter refuses. Shortly afterwards, right-wing leader Roberto D’Aubuisson has Romero shot through the heart while saying Mass. The country soon dissolves into civil war, with the peasants in the hills fighting against the military government. The CIA and U.S. Armed Forces supply the government with overwhelming military and intelligence superiority. CIA-trained death squads roam the countryside, committing atrocities like that of El Mazote in 1982, where they massacre between 700 and 1000 men, women and children. By 1992, some 63,000 Salvadorans will be killed.

1983

Honduras — The CIA gives Honduran military officers the Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual – 1983, which teaches how to torture people. Honduras’ notorious "Battalion 316" then uses these techniques, with the CIA’s full knowledge, on thousands of leftist dissidents. At least 184 are murdered.

1986

Eugene Hasenfus — Nicaragua shoots down a C-123 transport plane carrying military supplies to the Contras. The lone survivor, Eugene Hasenfus, turns out to be a CIA employee, as are the two dead pilots. The airplane belongs to Southern Air Transport, a CIA front. The incident makes a mockery of President Reagan’s claims that the CIA is not illegally arming the Contras.

Iran/Contra Scandal — Although the details have long been known, the Iran/Contra scandal finally captures the media’s attention in 1986. Congress holds hearings, and several key figures (like Oliver North) lie under oath to protect the intelligence community. CIA Director William Casey dies of brain cancer before Congress can question him. All reforms enacted by Congress after the scandal are purely cosmetic.

Haiti — Rising popular revolt in Haiti means that "Baby Doc" Duvalier will remain "President for Life" only if he has a short one. The U.S., which hates instability in a puppet country, flies the despotic Duvalier to the South of France for a comfortable retirement. The CIA then rigs the upcoming elections in favor of another right-wing military strongman. However, violence keeps the country in political turmoil for another four years. The CIA tries to strengthen the military by creating the National Intelligence Service (SIN), which suppresses popular revolt through torture and assassination.

1989

Panama — The U.S. invades Panama to overthrow a dictator of its own making, General Manuel Noriega. Noriega has been on the CIA’s payroll since 1966, and has been transporting drugs with the CIA’s knowledge since 1972. By the late 80s, Noriega’s growing independence and intransigence have angered Washington… so out he goes.

1990

Haiti — Competing against 10 comparatively wealthy candidates, leftist priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide captures 68 percent of the vote. After only eight months in power, however, the CIA-backed military deposes him. More military dictators brutalize the country, as thousands of Haitian refugees escape the turmoil in barely seaworthy boats. As popular opinion calls for Aristide’s return, the CIA begins a disinformation campaign painting the courageous priest as mentally unstable.

1993

Haiti — The chaos in Haiti grows so bad that President Clinton has no choice but to remove the Haitian military dictator, Raoul Cedras, on threat of U.S. invasion. The U.S. occupiers do not arrest Haiti’s military leaders for crimes against humanity, but instead ensure their safety and rich retirements. Aristide is returned to power only after being forced to accept an agenda favorable to the country’s ruling class.  

DD
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

Chivis
Administrator
It is not a case in which we should not be involved, we definately should be.  However, I would hope we learn lessons of the past.  The past remains unchanged forever, it is now and the future that can be crafted into an effort we can be proud of.  

What do you propose we do?  Nothing?  to do nothing is to allow to be created, perhaps unlike anything seen in the history of the Americas.  Short range, Mexico will feel a relief as a great segment of narcos and their "activities" seem to have lessened.  But in reality, they simple set up next door, unmolested by annoying military and gov.  The corruption in CA makes Mex look as a model of intregrity, they are weak, unstable and easy prey for Zs or Sinaloa.  They will be able to execute any plan they may construct.  

That is the fear.  and eventually all of us will have hell to pay.  I don't see how we can do nothing and how we can do "small".  that ship has sailed, we are a couple of years to late.  Every country in CA is affected.  Look at Costa RIca.  WHo would have thunk that one?  The Switzerland of the Americas, rid them selves of that pesty money gouging army, so when Sinaloa carved themselves a fat roun te smack thru the country they were defenseless and had to call on the US for help.

So yes we are responsible for some egregious doings in the past, but we still have a duty.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

Jack S. Shaw
Nice looking tattoos!   Been gone for a bit.  Had a small heart attack and triple bypass.   Im retired now for good.   Glad I'm alive to see borderlandbeat again.  
DD
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DD
In reply to this post by Chivis
No Buela, I am not opposed to us doing something.  My post was intended to give some of the readers a reminder of why so many people and governments in CA, SA, and even Mexico distrust the US.  My gut response is to use "hit squads" to take out the bad guys.  But there is where the problem becomes sooo complicated.  How do you put a leash on such squads?  How do you keep the "powers that be" from using such squads to further a given agenda?

Whether it is in CA or MX, it makes me stop and look at the big picture again.  While I agree with the strategy of Calderon of fighting the cartels with force, especially as he has modified it the last couple of years.  But his policy has also shown us that force alone is not going to shut down the cartels, it only causes them to go to other areas.  

More and more I am beginning to think that some form of legalization is the only thing that is going to really hurt the cartels.  And that would have to be through international agreements where other countries do the same thing.  You, better than most know all the things that are collateral to that strategy working -- treatment programs, rehab, educating the public (the anti-smoking is a good model).  

Also, as you have said so often, the problem of stopping or curtailing violence and the problem of stopping or curtailing drug trafficking are not necessarily the same thing.  But it does worry me that we will only focus our efforts to help on arming and training the armies and police in all the countries that are affected by the violence and drugs.  The old addage of "If we don't know our history, we are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind.    I wish I had the answers.
DD
Words are powerful weapons, be careful how you use them.
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

JesusTheMoose
In reply to this post by DD
True, there is a lot of history with US intervention in Central and South America. Because of the US containment doctrine any local politics going left became global politics in the tug of war between the USSR and the United States. From a strategic perspective, keeping the USSR's sphere of influence out of our 'backyard' has foremost importance. What happenned down south has played like a Greek tragedy where ideals clash and people suffer. When speaking of the United States' culpability, we have to use a nuanced prism because we were not the only actors in that aforementioned global tussle.

An aquaintance that's a social worker blamed latin women and machismo for making young latinos' propenseness toward gangs because of a lack of genuine self-esteem (Maslow's definition). Because the youths are babied beyond adolescence their lack of accomplishment and ability sometimes gives the need to join a gang to acquire self-esteem. The ladies that I know that have lost children to gang life seemed to weak and unconditionally doting mothers (enablers ad nauseam) that don't have a firm sense of how to instill character. So then the gang does. Gang membership is a self-esteem freebie -- no personal accomplishment need apply.

Of course this is only one perspective that is focused on the individual. There may also be sociological factors. Here's one, in my sister's church youth group she found that some members had to abstain from anti-gang demonstrations and activities so not to offend their families. In any case, those youths have my admiration because they see a greater truth and swim against the tide of their families' expectation.

I have to also forcefully put that poverty doesn't lend the disadvantagement that leads to criminality. Plenty of poor people are law abiding. Education helps but I can tell you that I've shared science, math, and language classes at the univerity level with Nortenos and Surenos. Character is what matters. I can't emphasize enough how important that is.

The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

Chivis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jack S. Shaw
wow... feel better, get well jack
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Guerro
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Now thats one ugly ass guy jajajajaja..
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MANO
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JesusTheMoose
Esmero, that's not the point. If you see falling into communism a bad thing, then the US did a good thing. US interests have helped Mexicans like my father. American Smelting built a hospital close to my dad's village and he was able to get lifesaving surgery back in 1930 or so. What my father saw in his town is nothing like the banana republics that some folks depict instead his town was vibrant during the depression.
The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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MANO
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

JesusTheMoose
Esmero, you are wrong. I'm no defender of 'savage capitalism', instead I'm a distributist which seeks policies that put capital in the hands of the individual not to the state. Capitalism and Communism are different. Where's the freedom in China, North Korea, and Cuba? China's potential has come unleaded because of capitalism and millions of lives have improved because of new urbanization and growth of infrastructure. And yet, the totalitarians in China have found problems with the newly educated and enabled population.

I have a friend that fond of the quote, "...the only thing that's worse than capitalism is the alternative. "

And to your objection to personal experience, it doesn't make it untrue. To be honest, it's referred to as 'anecdotal evidence'. It's decidedly unempirical because I don't feel like taking the time to research and quote by MLA what I already is true.
The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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JesusTheMoose
Oh, about 9/11. The US didn't put a gun to Al Qaeda's head and force the to fly planes into buildings full of innocent people. If you check Bin Ladens own statements,he was after the US because US forces stepped foot on 'the holy land of Saudi Arabia' and nothing else than an animus toward anything western and anything that doesn't resemble the Taliban's disaster in Afghanistan. No offence, but you went to public school?

The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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MANO
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MANO
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

JesusTheMoose
Esmero, that's the same old tired rhetoric. Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, Iraq,  and Afghanistan have great inequity because of corruption in their own political systems. Jordan and Turkey don't seem to sure the same. And then, there's the subject of Wahabiism which you have yet to acknowledge.

I don't know about your rules of engagement, but mine are strict and they don't include intentionally killing innocents.
The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

MANO
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Llorando se fue, la que algun dia me hizo llorar.
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

JesusTheMoose
Okay, Esmero, what's your country?
The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

MANO
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
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Llorando se fue, la que algun dia me hizo llorar.
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Re: DEA Commando Teams Sent to Central America/Brutal CA Gangs shocking vids

JesusTheMoose
Yet again, you skip the question, Esmero. BTW, I didn't know you were human. So thanks for informing me.

The only object of liberty is life. -- G. K. Chesterton

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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