CJNG - (New VIDEOS, 6/1/15) 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Pepe
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

La Flama Blanca
If Mencho was there he would def had time to escape bc the authorities had to ask the locals if there was a back entrance to the ranch.  That would have taken time to be shown how to get there.  So if Mencho was there, I;m sure he bailed the second he heard one of his trucks was pursued by authorities heading to the ranch.  Mencho must have been miles away (if he was indeed there), by the time the helos and gov. reinforcements arrived and surrounded the ranch.  On another note (i have zero tactical knowledge in combat zones btw), but how would the authorities surround the ranch on the ground and not be susceptible to friendly crossfire.  I know this was a fairly large property and other than the helo gunship, wouldn't there be at least a few escape roots for some of the narcos to escape the ranch?  

Or perhaps the Authorities had 3 positions around the ranch (none of which in each others line of fire) and attacked, which would sort of funneled the narcos in one general direction.  Then the helo arrived and took them all out.  Just some common sense thoughts of mine and/or possibilities of the massacre.  I now do not believe the entire scene was staged, but I do believe that several injured narcos were finished off at close range.
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Pepe
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Chava
This post was updated on .
Washington Post: 11 of the 43 had signs of being tortured according to witnesses

http://www.sinembargo.mx/30-05-2015/1360965


Mexico City, May 30 (SINEMBARGO) .- Relatives and neighbors of 11 of the 43 killed last May 22 in a clash between federal forces and alleged members of organized crime in the Rancho del Sol, which occurred between the towns of Tanhuato and Ecuandurero, in the state of Michoacan, reported The Washington Post that the bodies of the relatives bore marks of torture.

According to the report published by journalist Joshua Partlow, Graciela Pineda, mother of Martin Felipe García Pineda, one of those killed, said she with friends studied the pictures that have circulated on the Internet about the fighting, and said she discovered visible burns and broken limbs on the bodies of the deceased.


"Other neighbors told them that the bodies of their sons were returned neutered or with bites on fingers and teeth and eyes were missing. They take these as signs that their children were tortured and executed, rather than dying in a shootout as police say, states the report.

"We make a plea to the government," he said in an interview with the US daily Luis Gerardo Garcia, brother of Martin. "To me, they are murderers with a license".

According to the publication, Martin Felipe García Pineda was raised in Ocotlan, Jalisco, and began working at age 15, and had jobs with low pay and worked as a security guard and a gas station.


"His passion was wrestling, his ring name was The Drako. The Sport led him to regional cities, he but gained little practicing. Earlier this spring he told his family that he had taken a job with several neighborhood friends at Rancho del Sol, located at kilometer 370 of the Mexico Guadalajara, Michoacan Tanhuato "describes the report.

The Washington Post notes that 11 of the 42 suspects killed in the confrontation came from a poor neighborhood located in the state of Jalisco.

"The men killed by police earlier this month in one of the deadliest fighting the drug war in Mexico came from Infonavit blocks 5, a poor neighborhood in Ocotlan, in the state of Jalisco. Relatives and neighbors do not dispute that at least some of them may have worked for the New Generation Jalisco Cartel, but that did not matter to the people of the community, "says the report.

The publication reveals that the neighbors did not see them as gang members, but as childhood friends who watched the houses, and parked cars and paid attention to those who did not belong in the area and kept away the drunks who lacked respect for women.

The police, according to the newspaper, were the ones who took things from shops on the corner without paying and lacked respect for women in the area.

"People do not walk in the streets because they are afraid of the government," said Graciela Pineda, who revealed to the newspaper that Martin is the second son who is killed by authorities in the past three years. "These guys did not lack respect for anyone." This is what bothers us, he said.

More than half of those who died came from Ocotlan, a city of about 100 thousand people set amid strawberry fields and alfalfa.

At the funeral of one of those killed was a native of Infonavit 5, the crowd chanted curses against the government, says the newspaper report.

"The government captured and killed everyone," said a man as he left the funeral service, "it was a slaughter."

"Before the war in Rancho del Sol, tensions between residents and police in Ocotlan had risen. In March, gunmen ambushed a patrol of the Federal Police in the city, killing five policemen and at least six others. It was one of several recent attacks attributed to the New Generation Jalisco Cartel, which has grown into one of the most powerful drug gangs in the country ", says the report.

According to The Washington Post, after the ambush Ocotlan, Infonavit five residents said police began patrolling the neighborhood, neighbors accused them of stealing watches and cell phones. Many consider young people who died and the New Generation cartel as advocates of federal aggression.

It was the cartel, said Luis Gerardo to the newspaper, who handed out mattresses and blankets when homes were flooded and sent truckloads of toys and bikes for children at Christmas.

The questions of who these men were and how they died are at the center of a growing controversy about what happened on May 22 in Rancho del Sol, in the state of Michoacan.

The government version says police clashed with the suspected cartel gunmen of the Cartel Jalisco New Generation. According to the National Security Commissioner Monte Alejandro Rubido Garcia, the end result was 43 dead, including a policeman and three arrested.

"The authorities praised the operation as a victory. They denied that any of the men were executed and said all tested positive to gun residue. But human rights officials have begun investigating the case after questions arose about the number of dead and if the bodies showed signs of torture, according to the text.

Finally, the paper recalls the statements yesterday made by the Americas director of Human Rights Watch, José Miguel Vivanco, where he said that "the death toll in the conflict raises serious concerns about the proportionality of the use of force".

"This result is particularly worrying in a country where security forces have repeatedly engaged in extrajudicial executions, disappearances and torture; and where impunity for these serious crimes of human rights is the norm, "Vivanco said.
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Pepe
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Chava
Lol, Pepe, wish I'd found that one first!!!
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Pepe
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Chivis
Administrator
pepe

the videos can support the notions of both sides.  you see nothing.  you hear the fire of the miniguns and barret.  but it does not prove that fire came from badguys.

although the vids say unedited, it is far from that.  

the guys sure are relaxed  laughing etc.  I don't know.  it proves nothing for anyside.  

miniguns used against civilians like this?  

 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Pepe
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Chivis
Administrator
yes that is the title(previously unpublished)but what vpm said not edited.

I have an important question.
lucio and I were discussing video number 1 where the soldier gets hit or something by another soldier,
what is your opinion.  there is a lot of noise I thought preparing a weapon just before.

but the soldier goes down.  and never gets up.  what happened?  begins around 1:10



 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Pepe
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

Chivis
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This post was updated on .
lucio has a post with the videos in draft for a couple days but he asked me to ask you and jlopez  what you think.

the shot, IF it is a shot is not from the front.  it is more the side or side back as his helmet goes forward and he is knocked to the ground and I don't see him ever getting up.  I heard later someone saying to get up and I thought drag something.  are you saying they are saying crawl?  

how about them calling home and taking selfies?  not actions of those thinking they could get killed at anytime.

you can here the miniguns and then see the yellow fire/smoke. they were gunned down by the water, at least we think so, there is an open field there.  I doubt anyone would run across an open field with shots overhead in a helicopter and from the ground.  


anyway we captured a few stills see below .  and I am sending the video to doc bunker maybe his group can see what they think

we have more stills.  but you can see he looks up and the camera man or "director" stands above and does something that seems to cause the soldier to lay out.   in the still it looks like the soldier in the foreground is hit but he never goes down and the video shows it clearly it isn't him.

but why no reaction?  that is a puzzlement.  the next part is more confusing and it the camera breaks away and there is movement but I am not sure of what



























 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: CJNG - 40+ Killed in Narco/PF Clash on Mich./Jalisco Border

jlopez
In reply to this post by Chivis
Chivis: I sent you an email. It is not what it seems. If you look carefully, you see the officer in front of the camera (I call him Officer 1) aim his rifle in front of the other officer, the one who ducks, and fire a round. The other officer appears to realize he may be too close to the line of fire and he ducks. He appears to get hit on the head, but he is simply holding his helmet down as he ducks. Look closely at Officer 1 and you can see him fire his weapon right across the front of the other officer, but still at  safe angle. You can hear the shot, see the rifle recoil, and even see some dust raised by the muzzle blast.

Note also that nobody reacts the way they would have had one of their fellow officer been shot in the head. In fact, Officer 1 keeps on talking to the officer to the right of the camera, whose voice we can hear but who is outside our line of sight. They discuss shooting at a white pickup. Another officer, sounds like a squad leader, tells everybody that they have to shoot at the pickup truck so that it will block another vehicle from leaving.
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