CDG needs to get its act together

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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

Chivis
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Ajulio....joven I thought you were much smarter than that.  You & I go way back, but this thinking is idiotic.  This violence has risen from

 rejection of law and order by Mx society

greed=corruption

faulty foresight never anticipating cartels could become so many, so diversified and SO POWERFUL
far more owerful than city & state governments forsure

self centered mentality manifesting in indiviualism and not working for neighbors and society as a team, as a whole.

who will the agreements be with?
 
for what?

gee if they are so trustworthy why are all treaties compromised and broken?

what next the UN?

cocaine use in the states in down dramactically

cocaine harvesting is down in South Am and CA by 18-28% (pot and Rx on the rise)

mexican DC are now TCOs diversifing into areas that shift their customer base  to Mexico...though the drug use problem has increased in Mx..and  now it is a consumer nation.

Do you think Mx TCOs are going to respect boundaries in the country that is their consumer base?

there was an alliance and it was broken.  Why?  because El Padrino was stupid and killed KiKi and went to prison, he then had to assign leadership to Juarez-Tj- etc.  which worked for a while, everything works for a while, but then GREED steps in.  gangs and splinter groups develop, fighting for territories for extortion, human trafficking, intellilectual market products etc in addition to drugs.  It is a different narco world.  it did not work before and will not now.  However even if padrino would have not gone to prison it would have gone down this path eventually because of greed and corruption.

one can not make a deal with the devil, targeting one cartel makes their enemy stronger, they all kill, the all kill innocents, kidnap, extort etc.  they are a cancer, one can not perform surgery  and only eradicate the large cancer and leave the small, it too will become large.

Mexico made the treaty and allowed drugs to flow freely into the US, as long as they got a cut and it was free of violence.  no problem, right?  WONRG, that was and could only be temporal. and now there is a huge problem that is systemic.  to the core.  CORRUPTION.  

what to do?

you target the ills of society, make people care, give opportunity, establish rule of law, reform prison system and jusicial system.  structure stiff penalties to ANYONE found guilty in a fiduciary position of collusion with cartels.  Life imprisionment.  Bring capital punishment for ultra deadly crimes against society, federal takeover of municipalities along the frontera and cities of great violence, while training, and providing equipment, weapons, communication systems that are current and at least on par with TCOs in Mx.  Provide equal access to education for all children.  SO they will not feel the only opportunity is one with cartels.  Mx narrows its field of choice for their leaders, doctors, scientists, educators by ignoring the poor, the talent goes untapped.  I KNOW I HAVE SEEN THIS up close and personal.

I have a child I found working on my construction site, in Dec 2 yrs ago.  he was 13. Long story I would be happy to share through email if anyone would like to read it.  But he was hauling rocks and after a process I made a deal with he family.  I think they are on the run from something, but are good people.  I invested in a tutor.  he was completely illiterate.  one year later he was reading so well and advanced to middle school by acing all fed tests in the top 5% in the nation!!.  I bought him a laptop for his achievments.  He is now ready to test for HS and I promised I will fund private school and university.  he is not smart he is brilliant. and a darn good kid with values, we share long talks about society, narcos, etc and he wants to lead, he wants to make a difference!   and was hauling rocks in a wheelbarrow.  How many Benitos are out there?  in a society of 50-60% poverty?  I have other personal stories of children I plucked from the bottom to see achive brilliantly.  Not all, of course because its not that way in life, I am saying Mexico flushes down the shitter its possibilty to prosper as a nation, as it should prosper, because they ignore half of their population that is now biting them in the ass.  

and as for the educational system.
it reeks badly
the worse test scores in the americas  majority = failed and a tiny % in the top percentage.
teachers are not certified  they take anyone
teachers union is as powerful as cartels with a lady hitler at the reign
teacher are only required to pass proficency tests by 30% ("they are there to teach not take tests")
the amount of teacher being paid not to teach even one day per year, "on the payroll" has doubled each year to now approaching 50%

as for the municipal police:

 hire with attractive wages and bonuses
rotate duty schedule between regions
polys & drug testing

the above is how merida inititive funding should be spent...to create a rule of law society, as free of corruption as humanly possible.

The US is imperfect.  But we are a compassionate country who is greatly concerned about our world and show it by being the most generous nation in the world.  We as indiviuals care far greater than citizens of any country, Mx has the least caring society. they don't even care about their people, their poor, their children of their nation, which is not caring about their future.   non profit charities are for all intents and purpose non existant.  They care about themselves, their space, their family, and how things effect them, nothing beyond.  How can a loving people become so self absorbed?  I ask myself daily.

Making a deal with the devil, is the sure path to hell.

sorry for typos....i am in a hurry...have a good day





 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

_The Magician_
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AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
In reply to this post by Chivis
Buelita! I agree with what you're saying but with all do respect, you are asking for too much from mexico. I only wish that Calderon had half the common sense that you have but most of those ideas that you have proposed, most likely will not happen. It would take an honest government and a savior president to make these things happen and I just don't believe that he exists at the moment. In order to have a workable solution for mexico, you have to use the common sense of a high school student. Thinking too Big does'nt work for a basic government and you always have to consider the financial consequenses as well.

Ovemex just posted an article that has the headline: TIJUANA VIOLENCE SLOWS AS ONE CARTEL TAKES CONTROL.  It came at a perfect time. It describes how in 2008 the homicide rate was 844 and during the transition of cartel rulership to the sinaloa cartel, the homicide rate dropped dramatically to 349 homicides in 2011. You don't really hear much about Tijuana violence or the AFO from borderland beat anymore. I've been told that the sinaloa cartel has good relations with the vendors. That they help the tienditas by not extorting them. The Sinaloa cartel focuses more on the drug trade then other petty crimes that los zetas are known for abusing. I hate el chapo and el mayo but they are smart and more professional. As many angry los zetas comments that I've read from people who live in zetas ruled territories, I've read just as many praises from people who live in CDS territories. That many people are not wrong. People who live in zacatecas now refer to their state as zaca-zetas.

Los zetas are a plague in mexico and need to be destroyed or at least sent to guatemala. Mexico needs to secure it's southern borders. I can see the CDG behaving more than los zetas. It's when the CDG is attacked by another cartel, that they act violently. But the gulf was in better hands under the CDG before CDS and los zetas invaded. The gulf cartel is smaller and more organized than the z's and the CDS has chosen them as allies which would make it simpler to choose one side over the other group of misfits ( zetas, juarez, beltran leyva, la familia, CIDA ). Most of these gangs are already fractured anyway.

In the end it will take a simpler plan that will continue where el chapo and calderon left off. To continue the war. To put a lot of pressure on los zetas. To let the CDS take over the juarez plaza and to place heavy military and police units in monterrey and acapulco. Simple, continuous, reasonable but still Extremely difficult. Once the sinaloa cartel is last standing with it's allies, then mexico can focus on the other ideas that buela has mentioned. But focus on the war first and try to get a truce as soon as possible.

The cartels will always exist. To try and destroy all of them is Idiotic. It will never happen. They are too ingrained into the mexican government and culture. The U.S. is too greedy, corrupt and stubborn to legalize street drugs anytime soon so mexico needs to work with the cartels just like the past, just like now, but in a more postive and more constructive way. Cuz in the end, It's Just Business.

CHIVIS FOREVER
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
Man, i'm liking this BB forum. Smart and more mature posters. Quick posts with lil' moderations. El Regio. Buela chivis' great reports. All the arguements. I think this forum needs more liberal people with mental disorders.
CHIVIS FOREVER
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
In reply to this post by _The Magician_
I disagree with you 1000%.
CHIVIS FOREVER
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

dario
In reply to this post by AJ
I'm glad at least one other person understands. When CDG gets violent it is against Zetas. I do not have to worry about Golfos because I am not a narco and do not have anything to do with narcos. Everybody has to worry about Zetas. that is the difference. CDG is not throwing grenades into our bars or shooting up honest people trying to make a living.

The Zetas are spreading like roaches and there will never be peace as long as we are infested with Zetas.

Another thing about Tijuana. I know Ingeniero is no saint but the normal people was safe under him. When Teo got out of control and went off on his own that is when normal citizens died by the thousands. when Teo was gone the violence rate fell immediately. Teo acted very much like a Zeta abusing the people not running loads north.

Zetas are quick to heat up plazas killing innocents

Every week we see the Zetas sink to a new low. Whether its burning casinos or filling mass graves with ordinary people on the bus. Zetas killed thousands of bus people and even made them fight each other to the death. CDG may be a cartel but the things Zetas do only come from men possessed by pure evil

Ask the people in Monterey how much they like the new Zetas running things

The police will not stop it. Our police work for the Zetas. So does the Army. The only hope we have here is CDG just like people in Cd Juarez want Chapo in and Linea out. Juarez cops took orders from Linea. If one cartel replacing another reduces the violence rate and saves civilians then it is a good thing. I'm tired of being caught in the crossfire because the US is addicted to drugs and the US government sells guns to Zetas. Let them deal with the loads going north with security on their border. That is between CDG and them. I am tired of innocent blood running in our streets.

I am sick that I must wish for one cartel to run another out of town. But right now it is the only hope.

If Super Man took over NL that would be even better than CDG but that is a fantasy. The only thing that can possibly stop Zetas is things going back to CDG like they used to be. It is not the best option but the only hope we have.

Anyone who can't see how Zetas increase the violence rate for normal people is either blind or a Zeta sympathizer. I think many here are Zeta sympathizers.
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
Dario, I agree with you 1000%.
CHIVIS FOREVER
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

Guerro
In reply to this post by AJ
"The cartels will always exist. To try and destroy all of them is Idiotic. It will never happen. They are too ingrained into the mexican government and culture. The U.S. is too greedy, corrupt and stubborn to legalize street drugs anytime soon so mexico needs to work with the cartels just like the past, just like now, but in a more postive and more constructive way. Cuz in the end, It's Just Business. "

This comment just hit home, because its the truth in the end its just "business."

I completely agree with you 1000 percent Ajulio!!!!
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
Guerro, gracias bro.
CHIVIS FOREVER
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

El Regio
In reply to this post by AJ
ajulio wrote
I agree. I'm choosing the lesser of evils too. All of the cartels are bad but the zetas are the most reckless of the cartels by far. Constantly i'm hearing stories of people who have been attacked by the z's or i'm reading articles about a new zeta massacre, and it never ends. This cartel has an addiction to violence. They seem to thrive on this reckless image. There's too many bums from mexico and guatemala working for the z's. They are too spread out like roaches.

Birds of a feather flock together. Get rid of los zetas and everyone else who's affiliated with them. The juarez cartel is slowly breaking down and its just a matter of time till el chapo takes over the juarez plaza. Destroy the beltran leyva cartel and la familia michoacana. They are both fractured cartels. Get rid of them now.

In the end, if el chapo can remain untouched, it should be the sinaloa cartel that is left standing, the way pendejo calderon planned it from the beginning. I'm okay with that, as long as the war ends so mexico can start to rebuild itself.

I can see a moderately peaceful mexico with the sinaloa cartel ruling the north and the CDG ruling the gulf coast but it just seems almost impossible for me to imagine a peaceful mexico with los zetas scattered all over the country. They have to be the biggest threat to the CDS. I can't imagine both the CDS and los zetas existing peacefully together.

Some hard-headed people need to understand that the cartels will always exist. They will never destroy all of them. So mexico should try to focus on the more reckless cartels first like los zetas. Calderon should focus on monterrey and acapulco. El chapo will take care of juarez and tijuana.

FUCK LOS ZETAS AND ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THEM.
You Sir are a main part of the problem for choosing to support these murderous criminals. You bitch and complain about the situation in Mexico yet you condone the actions of a certain group or groups. You are feeding the fire that has been brewing for many years and is now too out of control to get a handle on it. With mentality like that, good luck Mexico.


"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

El Regio
In reply to this post by _The Magician_
I agree with Buela too....
"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

El Regio
In reply to this post by AJ
ajulio wrote
Buelita! I agree with what you're saying but with all do respect, you are asking for too much from mexico. I only wish that Calderon had half the common sense that you have but most of those ideas that you have proposed, most likely will not happen. It would take an honest government and a savior president to make these things happen and I just don't believe that he exists at the moment. In order to have a workable solution for mexico, you have to use the common sense of a high school student. Thinking too Big does'nt work for a basic government and you always have to consider the financial consequenses as well.

Ovemex just posted an article that has the headline: TIJUANA VIOLENCE SLOWS AS ONE CARTEL TAKES CONTROL.  It came at a perfect time. It describes how in 2008 the homicide rate was 844 and during the transition of cartel rulership to the sinaloa cartel, the homicide rate dropped dramatically to 349 homicides in 2011. You don't really hear much about Tijuana violence or the AFO from borderland beat anymore. I've been told that the sinaloa cartel has good relations with the vendors. That they help the tienditas by not extorting them. The Sinaloa cartel focuses more on the drug trade then other petty crimes that los zetas are known for abusing. I hate el chapo and el mayo but they are smart and more professional. As many angry los zetas comments that I've read from people who live in zetas ruled territories, I've read just as many praises from people who live in CDS territories. That many people are not wrong. People who live in zacatecas now refer to their state as zaca-zetas.
Asking too much from Mexico, really? To become honest law abiding people is asking too much? Are you saying Mexican people are not capable of acting like a civilized country? I have more faith in Mexico (or perhaps had).

You obviously have a thing for Sinaloa and CDG.... you mention the article that Ovemex posted.
Yes the homicide rate was very high in 2008, due to the "transition", which is in other words El Chapo taking the plaza by force! Once again the Sinaloa Cartel causing massive casualties both drug related and civilian. Somehow in your discussion about AFO vs. Sinaloa in Tijuana you begin to rant about Los Zetas which seems to go off topic a bit.
You mention people living in CDS territories and how much of a Utopia exist in those locations. Well perhaps it is because CDS has corrupted Mexican officials at a higher level and less violence is need to maintain control, don't you think? You also mention Zacatecas and how it is a Zeta stronghold. Do you hear much news out of Zacatecas? San Luis? Quintana Roo? No not really, because no other Cartel is really trying to take the Plaza from Los Zetas so your argument is really invalid. Monterrey didn't heat up until CDG trying taking it from Los Zetas and the war was declared. I went in January of 2010 (right before the war) and it was pretty much still normal.
The fact is that no cartel really wants to bring attention on themselves, yes sometimes innocents get caught in the crossfire. I place more blame on the greedy Capos that are taking war everywhere all out of greed.
How is that CDS Utopia working out in their home state of Sinaloa????








"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

Chivis
Administrator
I saw the article in its orginal form but not on BB.  and two schools of thought.
one is ALL agreements work for a while.  Until one cartel establishes themselves.
secondly the number of murders still high and growth is in the outlining areas.
thirdly,  it was conjecture.  name one agreement that has lasted?  they do not because of greed.
 
how is Mexico to afford these things?  Merida funds for the training, equipment, ect for police agencies.
feds take over is not different than now in cost just duty.
 
Mexico essentially has no tax structure.  it needs a structure to pay for education and social programs.
PLUS a large % of teachers are paid just to be on the payroll and never step foot in the classroom including Tuta.
 
Natl Bureau of Economics Research just completed a study of why Mx is in the shitter and not enjoyed successes
such as China.  as it should.  even in a moderate sense.
 
it says:
 inefficient financial structure
lack of contract enforcements to encourage foreign investments as well as domestic
lack of rule of law
non mfg promotion (for job creation) as in: 
telecommunication
utilites
petroleum 
corruption
lack of productivity growth, not in mfg so much as the entire economy
lack of competition
 
mexico has entered a bubble where unemployment will blast to astronomic levels.  where will those folks go?
 
jobs = stability and growth = tax revenue= programs and education=employment  etc....
 
You  look at the tiny picture of narco violence and in reality narco violence is the byproduct not root cause.
to attack narcos without foresight of what needs to be establish for a stable and prosperous society with opportunity and
rule of law one needs to look bigger, wider as in GLOBALLY ...look at economic comparatives such as China and India and reach
the bottom line conclusions.
 
to make a deal will grown violence and crime in the long run
to implement  structure changes will build a society that will manage to handle crime and criminals.
not now
not 10 years
but hopefully in a generation or two.
baby steps perhaps are better than stagnation and lawlessness.
transportation etc......
I study global economics as we have been in 12 countries with our business.  It is complicated but the basics remain unchanged.
the trickle down effect is always the same. 
 
it is not about peace agreements...that changes nothing but save some lives in a temporal fashion ((while it is respected), but then...
as the saying goes " ├»ts the economy stupid"   not the temporary GDP growth (it levels and stagnates)  spurts, true strutural changes is needed. 
 
Perhaps I should keep it simple.  because this is a drop in a bucket of what I would like to say and show.    but if one wants REAL change one must dig deep.
 
and besides you opned the door.
 
 

From: El Regio [via Borderland Beat] <[hidden email]>
To: Buela Chivis <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: CDG needs to get its act together

ajulio wrote:
Buelita! I agree with what you're saying but with all do respect, you are asking for too much from mexico. I only wish that Calderon had half the common sense that you have but most of those ideas that you have proposed, most likely will not happen. It would take an honest government and a savior president to make these things happen and I just don't believe that he exists at the moment. In order to have a workable solution for mexico, you have to use the common sense of a high school student. Thinking too Big does'nt work for a basic government and you always have to consider the financial consequenses as well.

Ovemex just posted an article that has the headline: TIJUANA VIOLENCE SLOWS AS ONE CARTEL TAKES CONTROL.  It came at a perfect time. It describes how in 2008 the homicide rate was 844 and during the transition of cartel rulership to the sinaloa cartel, the homicide rate dropped dramatically to 349 homicides in 2011. You don't really hear much about Tijuana violence or the AFO from borderland beat anymore. I've been told that the sinaloa cartel has good relations with the vendors. That they help the tienditas by not extorting them. The Sinaloa cartel focuses more on the drug trade then other petty crimes that los zetas are known for abusing. I hate el chapo and el mayo but they are smart and more professional. As many angry los zetas comments that I've read from people who live in zetas ruled territories, I've read just as many praises from people who live in CDS territories. That many people are not wrong. People who live in zacatecas now refer to their state as zaca-zetas.
Asking too much from Mexico, really? To become honest law abiding people is asking too much? Are you saying Mexican people are not capable of acting like a civilized country? I have more faith in Mexico (or perhaps had).

You obviously have a thing for Sinaloa and CDG.... you mention the article that Ovemex posted.
Yes the homicide rate was very high in 2008, due to the "transition", which is in other words El Chapo taking the plaza by force! Once again the Sinaloa Cartel causing massive casualties both drug related and civilian. Somehow in your discussion about AFO vs. Sinaloa in Tijuana you begin to rant about Los Zetas which seems to go off topic a bit.
You mention people living in CDS territories and how much of a Utopia exist in those locations. Well perhaps it is because CDS has corrupted Mexican officials at a higher level and less violence is need to maintain control, don't you think? You also mention Zacatecas and how it is a Zeta stronghold. Do you hear much news out of Zacatecas? San Luis? Quintana Roo? No not really, because no other Cartel is really trying to take the Plaza from Los Zetas so your argument is really invalid. Monterrey didn't heat up until CDG trying taking it from Los Zetas and the war was declared. I went in January of 2010 (right before the war) and it was pretty much still normal.
The fact is that no cartel really wants to bring attention on themselves, yes sometimes innocents get caught in the crossfire. I place more blame on the greedy Capos that are taking war everywhere all out of greed.
How is that CDS Utopia working out in their home state of Sinaloa????








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The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
In reply to this post by El Regio
Regio, I disagree with you 1000%.
CHIVIS FOREVER
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
In reply to this post by El Regio
Regio, I will wait until you have a valid point for me to spend time in arguing with you. Try Again.
CHIVIS FOREVER
AJ
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

AJ
In reply to this post by El Regio
Regio !
CHIVIS FOREVER
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

El Regio
In reply to this post by AJ
That's nice ajulio, I see you are just going to troll on this forum and not engage in an adult discussion as I have just engaged you.

Thanks.
"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

DURANGO1
Regio,

Do you have a preference in cartels? Im just curious you bash anyone that dislikes Zetas.

Durango1
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

DURANGO1
In reply to this post by Chivis
Ok im going out in a limb here but Legalization would not change anything in Mex i theorize it would make it worse. Why worse? If these structured organizations lose their cash crop MJ, Meth, etc these people still need money. They are not going to say ok drugs are not possible lets do an honest living. They wont if push comes to shove their be more of kidnapping, robbery problem in mex that their is now. Some say its the Zetas that started this whole fad but its not just them. CDG does it CDS doest it they all do, its just the zetas with their foot soldiers who are just mere puppets of Lascano that get caught and do stupid stuff. For those that say Zetas are rag tag they are maybe in the lower levels, but once you reach upper middle you see very good structure, id wana say reminiscent of Guadalajara cartel. I cant say CDS because CDS DOES NOT HAVE A LEADER. If you research them they are a federation, Mayo, Azul, Chapo have a working partenership but not a single leader. Chapo is the face the government wants to plaster on their war. This whole CDG internal battle is very interesting if things like this continue theyll go the way of la  familia. I cant hope for a victory by them or the zetas, all that i can hope for is one cartel being powerful. This whole idea of two cartels trying to get a city does nothing by violence. Ive been to Nuevo Laredo, ive had no issues with Zetas or seen anything out of the ordinary. As the saying goes "el que nada debe nada teme" Obviously the bad thing is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Just a sidebar does anybody have an actual idea how many really innocent people have died? I know everyone is innocent but a rough number would be informative.
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Re: CDG needs to get its act together

El Regio
In reply to this post by DURANGO1
Nope not at all, I have explained multiple times how Los Zetas have affected my family personally. They have lost much of their freedom in Monterrey since this war started between Zetas and CDG, I dislike them both, equally, they are both scum of the earth! What I don't do is live in a fantasy land and believe that one group is better than the other.
However can you point out where I have bashed anyone? If you are referring to the discussion above then you are very wrong in your analysis. I simply pointed out factual incidents, Ajulio is the one that came back with nothing on topic and attacking me personally.

"The Tea Bag Party has a 10-15% approval rating. Depending on who you ask. ja ja ja" The wise Ajulio.
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