Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

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Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

texastee
Banned User
Hey maybe chivis can better exxplain this to me but i dont have his email. I watched a vice documentary about autodefensas and doc mireles. They are shown as white knights and local villagers facing corruption... But i see this is not the case after learning Dr is linked to cartels.

My question and to start this thread is to ask who pays for all the propaganda and publicity dor autodefensas ? They clearly have a sinaloa cartel like media arm/marketing the movement through news and western television. I wonder why big companies like vice and nbc want to show them as the good guys.

Surley there are no good guys in a war.

A quote that rings true "fighting monsters .. you will eventually become one in the process"

It sounds like autodefensas is another cartel recruiting locals.. And is involved in crystal meth production and transport.
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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

Chivis
Administrator
I am writing an article. about all of this.  I hope i have time to finish before my upcoming surgery.  but it requires much research.  working title  is "The Backstory of  Migueladas, Mireles, Mencho and The Grandfather"

vice is not a good source for autodefensas

 doc is not a narco or belonging to a cartel.  it is very complicated.  yes he worked with narcos in the ad movement.  supposedly those were 'reformed'  and obviously not so.  BTW each person living in those towns of mich, know, befriend and interact with narcos.  they are not judged by that alone. but rather what they do in addition of being a trafficker.

We had many discussions about this and of abuelo and americano in particular.  i was a little self righteous out of my ignorance.   difficult choices are made in difficult situations.  

simple way to explain---just as resident are working along side el abuleo and his narco against mencho in 2013 the AD movement had had enough with Templarios and the kidnappings, killings and raping especially of little girls.  

Doc saw these little girls at his humble clinic.  one time an 11 year old girl came to the clinic 5 months pregnant after a templarios gang rape.  That was the last straw.

At the time he put his medical practice on hold he was only 2 years away from being able to retire with a pension.  he worried about two things; never being able to go back for the two years or being killedin exactly that order

He was in charge of the "coastal autodefensas' which were genuine auto defensas and of indigenous peoples, who are protected by the constitution by three articles that guarantee the right for them to organized and establish their own government, including police force, if the gob of the state or republic is not doing the same.  and clearly even today they are left to defend themselves alone.

So in 2013 the people were being horribly abused.  When Tuta was asked about the gang rapes, and BTW the girls were taken from inside their homes, and gang raped for days, when asked he almost laughed about his boys being unmannerly, misbehaving because they didn't know better.

Doc had been kidnapped twice, his sister kidnapped and killed  but it was the little girls that effected him the most.  

So the situation was; there was a  group who trafficked drugs, extorted businesses but also terrorized the people so badly children were afraid to go to school, people expected every night the thugs would break into their home, take their sons for cartel work, take girls for sex.  The atrocities were unimaginable.  They wold boast by doing thing like hanging bodies from bridges, and signs that grace the city entrances . Or loved ones would just disappear.

so when they organized it was obvious they would need help.  when abuelo came forward and other narcos they offered to fight along side AD to destroy tuta and the templarios.  Abuelo never harmed or exploited citizens.  that is why they trust and love him.  another one was "El Migueladas",  not loved as abuelo is but far less harmful than tuta and his band.  

Remember they had no help from the state and no help from the feds.  people were being murdered in growing numbers each day.

What would most people do?  allow templarios to continue or go in and destroy them with help from traffickers?  it is easy to be self righteous from afar.

He never had a problem with the help from abuelo who did exactly as promised but did have a huge problem with Migueladas who he blames for his plane crash and near death doc says it was intentional.  I will write about that in the article. at this point migueladas had been a powerful and extremely wealthy  narco for at least 15 years.  Yet  few outside the region never heard of him or his band.  

Of all the characters in the AD movement, top narco or not -- only doc went to prison for years.  I believe because of his growing power EPN sent in castillo to abolish and destroy the movement and Doc.   Castillo did so with the help of narcos.  

Doc was acquitted of all charges.  he was released after the gob was sure he would no longer be a factor and the ad movement was destroyed.   He broke his back in prison and was denied medical treatment for days.  he was not given his insulin for long periods and his health body and even mental has suffered.  BTW this is documented by the human rights association.  

It is heartbreaking what happened to him.  The new president always stood by doc's side and championed for his release.  

He is and always has been a high profile person with little means.  He lives in a simple home belonging to his father.  It is pink with a tiny grove in back of guavas and avocados. He never owned a vehicle.  But his attorney, some friends who he asked for help donated money for a down payment for an armored suv.  The government took it away from him and it has not been seen again. The government also denied his request for a couple of escorts.  

He is the first to say he is not a perfect man, he has flaws, but his love and concern for his country, his state and Michoacanos is 100% genuine.

and in the end Tuta was destroyed.  

But at a steep price.
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

texastee
Banned User
Ah. Thank you for lengthy reply. I am aware of tuta. If i am not mistaken he was a school teacher at one point turned narco and templar boss. He comes off as crazy/un hinged in interviews i have seen. He mixes mid east mistisicm (templars) crusader style with violence.

But i have another question. The state and Gov took away armoured cars of the Dr?  and also there was a famous scene when military tried to disarm the AD and community said fuck no.. Surrounded military 100 to 200 strong armed with machete, pitchfork and old 1800 century bolt action rifles.

Military looked to have a convoy of around 40 men and they left without the weapons confiscated.


My question is who has the big pull of state and Gov forces? Does el mencho or other large narco group have political pull and push the army to disarm and confiscate autodefnsas movement?

It seems like the GOV or state is not on Dr side... Meaning someone of power is most likely controling politics above them.

You are saying (abuelo narco ) is fighting state police ..Gov and menchos ppl?    

Can you make a simple.  A vs B.  Diagram or write it so i can see the sides involved. I also understand it is not as simple and not black and white. But a who  VS who explanation can still be made.
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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

sqkdra
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Chivis
There are a few things I don’t understand about El Abuelo. From what I’ve read, he was part of the Milenio Cartel that was enemy with the Familia Michoacana. But when the Zetas tried to take over this region, he fought them and beat them: was he allied with the FM at that time (since most of his allies fled to Jalisco) ??
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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

Common
In reply to this post by texastee
VICE NEWS:  although they cover a wide variety of international subjects that many would never hear about otherwise, VICE is infamous for researching one side of any subject while strongly disregarding the other side of it( the side that they personally do not find appealing).  In recent years especially, they have become a great source of misleading audiences.

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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

Chivis
Administrator
exactly.  And I like Keegan,  but the coverage is not very deep. i get it, they have to appeal to a larger audience broad based...
 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please
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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

Common
There’s quite a few of them I respect.  VICE coverage of desperate situations around the world is a good thing, I liked them in the past more.  It’s just sad to see them putting a more considerable focus towards the political monsters of the U.S these days.. but yeah, that’s what the large audience want to see/hear.
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Re: Autodefensas/Vice news proaganda

Chivis
Administrator
new editor new end product.  They still appeal to me but don't always get it right.  their vids are the best tho.  keegan gave us a couple of shout-outs during chapo trial.  and we privately communicated.    he did a great job with that, but even with his extra info that was not always correct.

I wrote an op-ed piece that chapo's defense used in the trial as evidence---still waiting for an audit over that one :) keegan tweeted it and encouraged people to read it.  I appreciate that and our viewership which is large to begin with increased by 25-30 percent

 
The way I see it.... the more people that don't like me, the less people I have to please