Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

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Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

Alberto Gutiérrez, Comandante Cinco, General Coordinator of the Council for Self-Defense of Michoacán
(Photo: Victor Camacho)

La Jornada: Arturo Cano

Translated by: Jane Brundage from Mexico Voices

Tepalcatepec, Michoacán - Alberto Gutiérrez, better known as Commander Five [El Cinco aka Comandante Cinco], lives opposite the town hall. In front of his house is a public square where he planted a tree the day his favorite won the presidential election. He says:

    ''I named it the Peña Nieto tree.''

Gutiérrez is the general coordinator of the Council of Self-Defense, or to make it clear, the coordinator of the men of action of the communities. These days he is also a spokesman:

    "But I told Papa Smurf (Estanislao Beltrán [the other spokesman]) that I'm only going to help him this week.''

Interviewed on the square, while he smoked and drank water from a bottle, El Cinco gives his version of the event that triggered the dismissal of Dr. José Manuel Mireles as spokesman for the self-defense groups: the death of five people in Chuquiapan on the Michoacán coast.

Journalistic testimonials support the version of one faction of the self-defense movement (the one opposed to Mireles): that members of the community of Caleta de Campos, commanded by El Plátano, fired on unarmed people on April 28.

The Templar Roadblock

Gutiérrez says that at the Chuquiapan roadblock,

    ''Yes, there were one or two Templars, but the rest were innocent people. We knew what the situation was, but not the physician. Why? Because he didn't understand us. He wanted to do it his way.''

When the self-defense group arrived, continues Comandante Cinco,

    ''those who were Templars began to fire--rat-tat-tat--they repelled the attack (here he makes the sound of a hail of bullets), and in that blast the people die.''

La Jornada: Then a confrontation definitely broke out?


La Jornada: But there are versions that indicate that they were sent by Mireles, and they killed unarmed civilians.

    "It's true. I'm telling it like it is. The stupidity of Dr. Mireles... I, as a responsible person, as coordinator, how am I going to permit their killing my people, or that they kill innocent people? I have to be intelligent, not stupid. How many did I catch yesterday (actually, Friday [May 9, 2014] in La Mira)? Well, 153. And how many killed me?"

The owner of 70 hectares [173 acres] of lime orchards, known as a tough man among the tough men of the self-defense forces and a lover of designer label clothes, Gutiérrez insists that Mireles gave the order to advance without coordinating with anyone, convinced that the people who were on the [Chuquiapan] blockade (who had on several occasions declared that that their purpose was to prevent the advance of the self-defense groups) were Knights Templar.

    ''Yes, it was a Templars roadblock, but by hook or by crook they forced those people to be there; otherwise, they were going to kill them. They, out of fear of the Templars and fearing us (because at first we thought they were Templars themselves), they sent two people, requesting support from the Navy, the Army, the Federal Police, and us, in this case, Papa Smurf.''

The self-defense commanders agreed, says Comandante Cinco, to carry out an operation to arrest the Templars who were forcing the inhabitants of Chuquiapan to maintain the roadblock. For this purpose, they advanced through the mountains, taking 14 hours to arrive. He adds:

    ''My brother was among them.''

The self-defense members of Caleta advanced along the coastal road, less than an hour away, with known results.

He returns to the moment of the confrontation, when he says that as the self-defense forces appeared

    ''a bastard shoots at them. Then what are you waiting for? They kill kids running away, unarmed women; the government told the truth. It was a massacre that they did for Mireles's stupidity.''

La Jornada: Were the Templars who opened fire mixed in with the people, or were they snipers?

    "No, [they weren't snipers], they were there among the people. The situation was delicate, and the doctor should have coordinated with us."

La Jornada: Mireles says that he never gives orders to advance, that he always goes to the front.

    "It's on tape. The matter was so. And what's more, how do we keep everyone together?"

La Jornada: Why did they go through the mountains?

    "It was an operation that we carried out to get to Tumbiscatío, of going through all the little villages looking for La Tuta (Servando Gómez, big boss of The Knights Templar, still at large). Hence, the decision was made because the people of Chuquiapan were asking for support, and the doctor was asked to wait, but he didn't pay attention and that's why that tragedy came about."

As is now known, this event triggered the dismissal of Mireles and a war of accusations between the physician and other leaders.

For Gutiérrez, the problem is that

    "before the accident, Dr. Mireles was one person, but after the accident his life took a 180 degree turn: he left with his family ... he revealed himself, he knew many things.''

About the Mireles of ''before,'' he says that Mireles joined the self-defense movement ''in the days of the uprising'' and that he poured into it

    "all the enthusiasm in the world. Why should I lie? To the doctor, my respects.''

In those early months, Gutiérrez was Mireles's commander (''he was my patrol number 30''), and Gutiérrez was among those who supported the idea that the physician be in charge of public relations, which happened following a day when they saw how Mireles managed to calm down an Army colonel who had arrived ''very hostile.'' Then, he adds,

    ''we weren't thinking yet about the communications media.''

La Jornada: The real strength of Mireles?

    "How? In what way?"

La Jornada: Well, he has been seen meeting with citizen councils from many municipalities, and there are many leaders who recognize his authority.

    "After awhile, he's going to end up in campaigns with Javier Sicilia. He likes that. But how I wish that he would take the people into account, the people who come together, because he doesn't consider anyone else."

La Jornada: Apparently in La Mira (where last Friday 123 ''false'' self-defense forces were detained) there was everything: both Templars and well-meaning people. Isn't that so?

    "That's one of the questions I asked before the operation. We knew beforehand that innocent people were going to fall, but for me they are assholes, because they charged 300 pesos [USD $23] to go through there [pass the roadblock].

    "Beltrán [Papa Smurf] went out there last week.

    "Taking matters into their own hands. The people who are not linked to any cartel are going to get out [of prison]. There has to be an investigation into each one."

La Jornada: A few days before the [La Mira] operation, some of those arrested in the operation held at gunpoint ''a female lawyer'' who works with Commissioner Alfredo Castillo. ... Did that event precipitate the operation? Is she Cuban or Colombian?

    "She is Cuban, and she even invited us to Cuba. And no, it was precipitated because they [La Mira group] wanted to ambush the state [forces] and us. Their intention was to ambush El Yanqui (Adolfo Eloy Peralta, Undersecretary of Public Security for Michoacán), to make chaos. The fact is that an almost total arrest was achieved...."

La Jornada: How is it going with Commissioner Alfredo Castillo?

    "We are complying. Now a minority of the [self-defense] prisoners remain in jail. This week, God willing, they are all getting out."

La Jornada: And La Tuta?

    "La Tuta is cunning. We haven't been able to catch the bastard, but sooner or later he's going to fall."

Barricades Scare Tourists

Every so often, Gutiérrez interrupts to speak into his telephone phrases like ''the Commissioner ordered it so'' and to give instructions; for example, that all the sandbags be removed from barricades

    ''in order to put an end now to this bad image; tourist officials are going to visit the region.''

In the tour from Tepalcatepec to Nueva Italia it is possible to confirm that the command voice of Comandante Cinco works: in just a few hours, the bags of sand turn into piles of dirt. One can also confirm that the fracture in the leadership has filtered down to the grassroots level of the self-defense movement. A man with a pistol stuck in his belt, who refuses to leave the white T-shirt at one of the barricades that are vanishing, says:

    ''El Cinco is Castillo's puppet."

But the man is small fish for Gutiérrez, who insists that legalization

    ''comes because it comes'' for all the municipalities, and

    "disarmament is imminent, for anyone who doesn't comply with the rules.''
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Re: Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

This post was updated on .
He likes to call himself " Commandante " , and has a love of expensive clothes , does this ring any bells? Certainly this is common behavoir amongst nearly all cartel members.

Yes there were templarios at the roadblock ! why the fuck didn't he and smurf remove them peaceably before La Caleta auto defensas arrived? Because he is being paid by them , as is smurf , and el Americano and everyone else ( nearly all ex cartel members now part of H3 ) masquerading as AD . How stupid does he think everyone is to believe this complete and utter bullshit.

If you are faced with a roadblock and multiple people shooting at you with assault rifles , you will answer fire with fire. Were the templarios really forcing people to man the roadblock? I don't believe a word of it. And neither will anyone else reading his version of accounts who has more than three working brain cells which will certainly exclude Jack Hawkins.

Castillo has legitimised the H3 cartel , and allied himself with them. I suspect Castillo wont be around long. The two communities out of the 36 , will soon be reporting the same behavoir of the Castillo cartel (H3) that were happening when the CT operated in the open with total impunity under the gaze of Castillo. Smurf related by marriage to Chango Mendez ! Soon to suffer a big fall from grace. EPN and OC doing their very best to influence mass media into believing Mireles is a crook , will also fail . The PRI government cannot stop the truth being told on social media, and anyone who knows anything about politics knows , there isn't a politician on the face of the earth that would eat the contents of his own intestines to gain some power or enrich themselves at the cost of everyone else.

BIG BIG changes ahead for Mexico in the near future , watch this space
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Re: Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

$30 for an armani xchange t shirt ?
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Re: Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

I wouldnt doubt if smurf ,americano and el 5 get taken out by tuta and H3 cartel they  been exposed already they serve no purpose anymore
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Re: Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

Smurf , Americano , commandante cinco , la tuta ,  all part of the same cartel , the Castillo cartel
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Re: Autodefensa Leader 'El Cinco' Gives His Version of Leadership Split

spike151 wrote
Smurf , Americano , commandante cinco , la tuta ,  all part of the same cartel , the Castillo cartel
and isn't la tuta the biggest traitor in michoacan who can trust that rat