Canadiana: Yes! Everything you stated is right on!
I empahtically agree with what you say about AA and NA.... In this regard, one of the best drug treatment programs I ever knew was Victory Outreach (based on Christian values and the program run by ex-addicts who understood the issues first hand.) Of course, if the addict did not buy into the Christian approach...things were tougher... But those addicts who did, did very well. Over the years, I lost track of Victory Outreach and don't know if it still exists.
In reply to this post by Mosco
Mosco, I completely agree with you and I actually made a confusing comment a few days back that didn’t have much sense but was just referring to what you say. When you are in the life or in a confined situation being able to read others becomes a chance to a better life or the separation between life and death altogether.
We can assume that most of the people committing atrocities are psychopaths or mentally troubled but they are only the minority, the exception. Most of that evil is made and built over time with effort by the daily little things (actions, thoughts, etc) that shape a psychology (collective and singular) of completely sane people who turn that way because of a specific reality, the reality of their environment.
Deviated people by nature so to speak come across as more naturally dangerous and usually they prey on the weak (look at rapists for example, they know their target very well). People, normal people who are willing to take part in organized crime for example are intelligent in how they pursue evil as it is less natural and more planned and strctured so to speak, and they are good at masking things, at lying at disguising themselves as different. To deceive is an art. People are good at lying, most often we lie to ourselves first before lying to the external world in order to build and shape the needed character in that specific circumstance. There aren’t universally bad or good human beings (apart from the deviated ones by nature) and mostly behavior is tied to circumstances. It’s interesting to see even in the life the good that someone who is capable of terrible atrocities at the same time can do. You see that in jail a lot too where you said you worked extensively.
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Sidernio: I can see you are giving the topic of psychopathy and deviant behavior some deep thinking. This is good because in doing so you will learn to navigate your own life in more efficient and safer ways. In my professional career (jails and prisons)with inmates revealed things about how they ended up all "chewed up" victims of their upbringings and circumstances. Yes, many looked "normal" on the outside....all people wear "normal" suits to cover themselves with (whole other topic)
I can tell you many stories about ordinary looking people that would blow your mind as to how they ended up doing horrific things. In many cases, these persons started out quite innocently down roads leading to "no turning back" situations. In effect, they were human lobsters entering an enticing lobster trap. And once in the trap, they had to co-mingle with other lobsters....prisons and jails are full of "two legged lobsters". In general, only about 10% of a inmate population ( in the USA) are criminal "psychopaths" ; others are mentally ill in need of medications, some are sociopaths with conduct disorders going back to their childhoods. It is not easy going to prison, usually getting there are series of lobster trap stories along the way.... (you should see some "rap sheets". As, you know, doing time in jail's and prisons among such kinds of lobsters is only damaging more what is already wrecked.....etc, etc.
As Dr. Zimbardo exemplifies the facts that not all psychopaths are criminals and some are very productive citizens who learn to live in conventional society without harming others. I will leave it here.
In our discussions, so far, we have not touched on the personality warping role of psychoactive drugs. Trust me, you can take ordinary people and through a process of becoming addicted to methamphetamines, cocaine, opioids, cannabinoids, and alcohol you will see (depending on the stage) personality changes… Seldom good as we all know.
Those video scenes where sicarios are torturing or dismembering their victims are graphic testaments to the power of these drugs. I have met many Cocaine, heroin, and Methamphetamine addicts who claim their behaviors where, in part , due to their addicted states. So my point here is that you can take ordinary common folks and chemically turn them into evil monsters.
First, quick story to make my point. There was a gang in a large metropolitan area that seduced and captured attractive girls but with little else going for them (easy to spot if you know how). These gangsters took selected girls to a remote area to live in trailers. While there doing "fun and games" they got them addicted to speed and at the right point made them into prostitute. Now, these girls were, metaphorically, already being poor and stupid were all heading into the lobster trap when they were identified seduced or better said "captured". Can you see it? Go to any popular urban place (where the music is erotically disinhibiting and where drugs and alcohol are rife) and if you look keenly you might see the "Pimped out" vultures eyeing the candidates to "Put on a plate". Dirls with a bit more smarts generally look out for each other to avoid the vultures.etc, etc.
Today, we would be remiss if we did not bring up the tremendous role psychoactive drugs and alcohol played in the manufacture of people who will transform themselves into evil monsters. So, again, let us not ignore the drugs and alcohol factors in this discussion. Additionally, there is no denying that if we have a person who has been damaged psychiatrically before doing drugs, that person is imbued with a "double whammy."
Second example, just to make my point. I once clinically knew a biker gangster (violent by defintion) who told me that when he was ten years old the family lived on a farm and had animals including goats. One of the kids became his personal pet which he named "Timmy."
One day, the family had an outdoor picnic and suddenly the father burst out laughing. He pointed at his son and gleefully asked him, "Do you know what you just ate?" My biker client with tears in his eyes told me his dad answered, "That's Timmy." This man has veen carrying that brain poison all his life. At 10 yrars old, what couold he do? This is a graphic example of child's personality being warped by a father who is supposed to be a heroic agent of goodness. We can guess, that this father probably did numerous other things to (probably innocently) severely damage his family. Can you see how this man went on to become a criminal biker?
Your friend and collegue
I looked at this guy's FB again
His post from yesterday says "I'm so ashamed of what I did that my face is falling off."
Crazy heartless MF !!
In reply to this post by canadiana
Anyone remember maybe 8 years ago, they then sewed the face to a soccer ball and played a game with it? I want to say it was Zetas
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