A long time readers question

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A long time readers question

303
I have been a member here for a long time. I love this site. It has some of the most interesting topics, and posts that you will find on the internet. Learning about the cartels is something I am passionate about, and I believe this site is one of the best sources on the internet.

I started reading back when CDG and the Zetas split. I watched both groups compete, it was extremely bloody, but both existed. At this time CDJ, BLO, LFM, and of course CDS were the main players. All the violence could seemingly be traced back to those groups in some way. Now, it seems that there is a new cartel popping up everyday. Some new group wanting respect, so the decapitate someone, or some other attempted display of power.

The question now is which way is better for the people of Mexico? We can all have hopes and dreams that America isn't going to continue to use drugs, but I think we all know that isn't going to happen. The other way to end drug cartels of course would be to legalize all drugs, which I am in favor of, but we also know isn't going to happen. So, that begs the question, which way is better? A 4-6 cartels that are powerful, and compete with one another, or a ton of groups trying to get a piece of the drug pie?
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Re: A long time readers question

Ciro
Legalize everything and open up all borders I say! US Canada and Mexico would prosper
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Re: A long time readers question

Podrido
In reply to this post by 303
I think this is an intriguing question and I'm surprised this didn't get more responses. Then again, having been a long time lurker of this site for many years myself I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. There's not a whole lot of discussion that goes on here, usually just the translating of articles.

That being said, I actually disagree on the notion that the legalization of drugs would end cartels. There will always be an underground market, and when you consider the idea that many criminal factions these days do not have the sources nor infrastructure to move large loads of drugs yet still exist it becomes clear they are making substantial amounts of money via different means.

Los Caballeros Templarios for example at one point was supposedly making more money taxing local mining operations and avocado farmers than they were by selling drugs. Their taxing of the avocados actually pushed up the price globally if I remember correctly.

Other groups like the Cártel del Noreste and the Metros of the CDG seem to make the majority of their money collecting extortion and ransom payments. There is of course petroleum theft as well, which as we have seen the last several years is an immense market to capture too.

However, in response to your actual question I think homicides in Mexico have been steadily on the rise since the crackdown began. The fracturing of criminal groups as major, more charismatic and well known figures are imprisoned only serves to breed more violence as you have several individuals from the same clique all vying for power when one big shot is put away.

Thus spawning new factions as we've seen so frequently since Metro 3 was killed and since Z-40 and Z-42 were imprisoned.

Of course the presence of any criminal group is by no means an ideal way of life, but I think when we see new groups popping up once a month all intent on body dropping and kidnapping rivals it makes me think that even then when things were still rough that perhaps there was at least a shred more security?
Just a lurker.
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Re: A long time readers question

ContraMantas
In reply to this post by 303
This question makes me think about the concepts of polarity and balance of power in an international relations context.

There has been much debate in the international relations field about what distribution of powers between countries (i.e. unipolarity, bipolarity, or multipolarity) leads to more stability. I think the murder rate in Mexico in recent years coinciding with the fracturing and proliferation of cartels is pretty strong evidence that multipolarity does not beget stability.
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Re: A long time readers question

Warpig
In reply to this post by 303
The only way to dismantle or reduce the power of the cartels is by going to their wallet i.e. going after their money laundering schemes and assets such as cars , property and so on. Dismantling the cartels via drug king ping act only splinters the cartels and their power but increases the violence and makes each cartel go after every venue they can  ,,
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Re: A long time readers question

Parro
This post was updated on .
Here's my thought.

King pin Act and Merida Initiative only throws money out the window.

No matter what you want to do to  the cartels, USA is still hungry for drugs.  Take a king pin down, and you have two to take their place.  So now their are two battles, instead of one, involving more recruitments and young scicars.

Fight money that flows to the meth dealers south of the border, just like now, only ends up being cooked  north of the border probably at a larger scale, or at sea. Pot legalized in USA, takes out one of the least profitable drugs in MX.  Heroin replaced by Fetanyl, with Chinese precursors, is now made in MX.  Would have to be legalized in USA in order to keep cartels from making their maximum profits.  Like pseudoephedrine, hand over the ID and let them tell you if it's too much, too quickly. Give antidotes to those that are already in the throes of addiction.

Distribute cocaine, identify and help wean those that have fallen into cocaine's trap.  Shouldn't cost that much for the high it delivers.  

[Interlude], They kill, decapitate an innocent family, then we become them, wanting to carve them up, decapitate and pull down their underwear. Violence doesn't work, and is not a solution. To become them, is simply the Hatfield and McCoys, non-ending vengeance.

We get rid of their fuel thieves but small communities fall apart due to no enterprise.  They'd rather take up arms.  Export cheap USA gas from W. Texas to Mexico, control the supply line to people.  Give them economic zones of development, without the industrial pollution that the USA has exported to Mexico.  They could make their living, where they are, in a good environment without stolen fuel and also make Pemex fall in line.

Give them our Merida funding and Kingpin money to the rural educational system of Mexico, which is really in need of over-hauling. Set requirements for participation in education, to give them choices, earlier.  Flag the early juvenile delinquents  and report them to their family or others, if the family cannot be trusted, give them to unknown loving guardians in independent municipalities.  In a seat, each day of school, with grading and consequences that families have no control over.

We get rid of extortion by a hot line.  Usually there are first attempts in a row of shops, in a market, etc.  Ring the hot line when confronted, have independent militia, get rid of the problem without impunity. Those that ring the hot line, are protected anonymously and given maximum protection. Surveillance is intensified.

We get rid of kidnapping by not paying ransoms, but sacrificing our loved ones. Very, very hard statement, but true in any war, the sacrifice of the innocents to win the psychological battle to defeat extortionists, evil dictators and despots.  The kidnappers . . . . death when found.  The toughest act, not giving them our hearts. This is a subject that has to be dealt with head on.

You protect politicians that pass the security tests with rings of security, just as the cartels do. You limit them to term limits and audited for personal wealth accumulation.  Politicians that serve within  the law, would have a ticket out.

No impunity for criminals but sentences doled out that fit the crime,  the courts become hallowed ground in MX.  Judges are short term, vetted and protected.  After their short terms, give them a ticket out.

Voice of Mexico, streamed to the populace, getting rid or cartel violent and implied silence or their wicked propaganda, with free press.  Replace the narco banners, that appeal to the common man.

Find their hackers and neutralize them through NSA by hacking them and destroying their digital footprint.  Make them pay.

Open borders to the truly desperate and hopeful immigrants, but know their backgrounds and their references, which will take some time after implementing the above.  Give them a chance without them being given a choice.

Mark gun shots, through barrel identification, and take those shops out that facilitate unwanted power in a few hands  and their own profit to the cartels. No longer with grinding out serial numbers, but identified by the barrel thumbprint.   Sentence the profiteers. Put them away,

It's not just wallets for the cartel, it's a stream of income that fuels young sicarios, halcones, political, judicial and police corruption.  These are topics that have to replace wallets.  A long and arduous task for all, but one needed.  We need to remove this contagion, sacrifice, protect, get our and their laws into real effect and protect the liberty that each individual is given to choose their life without reprisal of death.

It's not just wallets, in my view.  It's a comprehensive set of steps that both sides of the border have to be willing to take.  It would have to be arbitrated by committees of specially, selected counsels of foreign origin.  Take out MX and USA.

Not only, "follow the money", but changing the rules, guarding and sacrificing the innocents.  

What a f###king shame it has come to this.  We need to protect the future and our legacy.  Will there be anyone brave enough, to get the ball rolling?

I don't see it.  The wallet doesn't work.  The problem is much larger.  It's an ideological battle.  Too many young people in Mexico are not given a choice but to kill or be killed.  You have to get these kids off the streets and into responsible schools.  Remove the cartel recruitment and give them an education.  Don't let them be hopeless.  I want to see the brave person.  The one that understands the big picture and acts out of selflessness and succumbs to the greater good.  Who will that person be, what will he know and how will he act?

It's not just the wallet.

My opinion only.
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Re: A long time readers question

deelucky1
In reply to this post by 303
Yet nobody beleives corupt goverments ?corupt law enforcement was  all the reason too make all this possible ?nobody mentions it!those are the biggest cartels right there with no names .
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Re: A long time readers question

Parro
Agree completely.  Thanks Deelucky1
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Re: A long time readers question

Ciro
In reply to this post by deelucky1
99% of people can be bought it just a question of how much.   Mexico is nextdoor neighbour to the biggest drug user in the world.  Coruption is high in Mexico because the amount of money involved.  In my opinion...  
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Re: A long time readers question

canadiana
Administrator
In reply to this post by Parro
Wow thats well thought out Parro.You must have pondered that for hours,you should take up politics in Mexico.
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Re: A long time readers question

Parro
No, not really, just a stream of consciousness post.  Power corrupts.  The judicial system maybe could be Skype with remote judges.  Politicians for the short term could be appointed, not by election, but outside arbiters, but Deelucky 1 is correct, they are the two largest cartels.  Rotten within.  A huge problem, that should have never got out of control like this.

The last thing I desire, is to be a politician, but sometimes, you have to volunteer, since all great deeds, are volunteered by the individual.

Job post - seeking all volunteers who are incorruptible.  Guaranteed protection by the Marinas.
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Re: A long time readers question

deelucky1
In reply to this post by canadiana
the wet dream about being a politician flys out the window when there aere no resources to sustain the fantasy.
Kab
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Re: A long time readers question

Kab
If the Yakuza can do it, why can't the cartels go back to what it used to be.

Keep the public out, stay in the shadows, peacefully make money.

Now, it's a mess, the general public in Mexico is spoiled and for the most part ruined, it's gonna take decades to fix this mess.  I'll probably be dead before anything positive comes from the shit hole.  Thank God I live in the USA.
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Re: A long time readers question

Ciro
To much bad blood for peace in Mex.  Yakuza is very different then a Cartel.  Yakuza is a mafia
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Re: A long time readers question

Mica
In reply to this post by 303
The US has the demand for drugs, so why does the US not have the top illegal drug cartel?

What makes the US impossible (and existence in Mexico) to have multiple social media kingpins who prosper, openly kill, reign terror on its' own citizens without impunity?

Corrupt law enforcement, lack of punishment, lack of opportunity and a missing middle class.



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Re: A long time readers question

Ciro
The US has the demand for drugs, so why does the US not have the top illegal drug cartel?  Rico would be my answer to your question.