1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

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1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
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How 'managed alcohol programs' are helping treat alcoholism with moderation
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/how-managed-alcohol-programs-are-helping-treat-alcoholism-with-moderation-1.4823803
Molly Thomas
Ottawa Bureau Correspondent, CTV National News
Ben Cousins

CTVNews.ca Writer
@cousins_ben Contact
Published Saturday, February 22, 2020 10:00PM EST

Barry McMahon, a MAP participant, is seen in this image.

 TORONTO -- Canada has become a world leader in a novel method of treating people with alcoholism and other countries are taking note.

 Managed Alcohol Programs (MAPs), sometimes known as “wet shelters,” are housing facilities where individuals dealing with alcohol addiction are given small amounts of alcohol throughout the day.

 The idea is that the controlled doses allow individuals struggling with alcohol addiction to remain stable and address issues, without any withdrawal, while reducing their alcohol intake.

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 “It breaks the cycle of people revolving through emergency shelters, through jails, though hospitals,” Dr. Bernie Pauly, scientist with the Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research and professor in the University of Victoria School of Nursing, told CTV News.

 Pauly is part of a nationwide study now evaluating the effectiveness of these facilities, but previous studies show MAP participants had fewer hospital visits, detox episodes and fewer arrests after joining MAP.

 These programs began in Toronto more than 20 years ago to prevent people from freezing to death on the streets. Today, there are similar facilities in more than 20 cities across Canada and in the Netherlands and Australia.

 A facility in Glasgow, Scotland recently began a pilot project of its own.

 "We’ve learned quite a lot from Canada and hopefully we’ll be able to implement something in Scotland that is comparable,” Dr. Hannah Carver, a lecturer in substance abuse at the University of Sterling in Scotland, told CTV News.

 In Ottawa, where there are two MAPs, those participating in the program are offered 15 pours of white wine daily, amounting to about three bottles of wine a day.

 Brian McMahon, who stays in one of the Ottawa MAPs, has been on this strict schedule for more than a year and said it’s about a quarter of what he used to drink.

 “(I was) drinking a lot of alcohol, passing out everywhere,” he said.

 Ray MacQuatt, who manages one of the Ottawa locations, said the program has allowed workers to help people in need sooner.

 “We are starting to catch people at a little younger in their addictions, people in 20s and 30s, as opposed to 50-year-old men,” he said. “We save them 20 years of basically hell living on the streets.”

With files from The Canadian Press
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Frank
Harm reduction is a very controversial subject, with hard liners saying that projects such as these are a waste of tax payer money. This is a short sighted and ignorant view. By keeping these people off the streets, hospital visits by marginalized addicts are drastically reduced saving untold amounts of money.

As for needle exchange programs, blood borne illnesses cost taxpayers extreme amounts of money. One person with HIV will cost taxpayers over a million dollars for medication and hospital stays. With respect to Hep C treatment the figures are much lower but still,significant (in the 300,000’sCDN).

Providing free wine to alcoholics or drug using equipment free of charge for drug users, may, on the surface seem like a sick joke to some, but I would suggest people who hold these views and judgements dig a little deeper and research the success rates of these programs. I’ve worked as a front line counsellor and witnessed the benefits of Harm Reduction first hand. I have seen it lead to total abstinence and people regain control over their lives. I believe in both of these programs. Keep in mind, at these centres, there are resources such as access to detox centres and rehab facilities as well as counsellor’s who give a shit.

Thanks for the post Canadiana!
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
Administrator
This post was updated on .
That's a good point Frank that 1 has to look at all the costs to the taxpayer like hospital visits,homeless shelters,etc.(I think most people don't really know all the health care involved) as 1 person pointed out a while ago on another forum post when it was revealed that the cost of legal heroin was $27,000 annually per addict at the Crosstown Clinic in Vancouver.There is also the cost of victimization of society being prevented like loss of thefts to businesses,house breakins and theft from friends and family as well.I'm thinking though about what thoughts an ex addict or alcoholic might think about these 'free vice' programs?Would it encourage them to go back to indulging or encourage non addicts to partake in recreational more often than normal as there is 'a way out' although I think no one ever really wants to become an addict by choice,it just happens when that recreational ' weekend warrior  'line gets crossed.It was something an ex addict had mentioned on here that he didn't want all drugs legalized because he might get into trouble again because of easy access I assumed.
Eh
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Eh
Hi Canadiana, I believe that was me whom you're referring to. I posted a couple months back about my knowledge on fent and the heroin programs in vancouver that give heroin users heroin everyday. Very similar to a methadone clinic with daily methadone dosing.

I'm very proud to say in a canadian when I see stuff like this. Its 2020, we have science and technology and advanced healthcare that is showing us that no 2 people are identical. With that knowledge why should we assume that 1 form of addiction treatment will work for everybody? I went through rehab, counseling, religion based treatment, abstinence and nothing worked for me. The only thing that got me "clean" was a methadone program which I have been street opiate clean since 08.

Methadone costs NOTHING to the government that's paying for peoples doses compared to the healthcare costs related to addicts seeking treatment in the socialist healthcare system Canada has. I would much rather have an addict on methadone, stabilized and living a normal life and being a productive member of society that pays taxes and follows the laws then a heroin user that spends their days seeking money to get their fix by any means necessary. How is this even being considered? Methadone isnt lifelong, although it can be if you choose but very few people just stay on it forever. Usually after a few years people taper down their dose and get off. I dont know the success rate of stating clean but that's not a methadone issue, that's an opiate and addiction issue. It's up to the person to do whatever they can to ensure they stay clean.

I have been an addict in one shape or form since I was 14 and I'm 32 now. I have a wife, my own home, a 5 year old with my 2nd due in 3 months. When I was on fentanyl my life was worthless in my eyes, I didnt care if I lived or died as long as I died when I was high. If the hardliners had their way methadone wouldnt have been available to me and I am 99.99% certain I would be dead if I didnt have access to a methadone program.

I'm sorry for ranting, I always do this lol
MX
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

MX
Thanks for sharing your story, Eh. And congrats on your new baby! Feel free to “rant” all you want in the future BTW. We have no issues with it.
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Frank
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by canadiana
Canadiana, you raise a good point. The petty crimes committed by desperate addicts/alcoholics, add another incalculable burden on taxpayers and safety issues (muggings and random violence committed by drunk people who are not supervised). Canada is definitely improving the way it treats its most marginalized citizens  yet Portugal is a nation that dealt with its heroin/addiction issue (which exploded in the 80’s) in the most successful manner in history. Here is an evidence based article to back that up. Very worthwhile read.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Slappy
In reply to this post by canadiana
I work for DESC.org  We run the largest shelter system in Seattle Wa.  We have been doing this since 1985.  It works wonders, they consume a lot less alcohol.  We keep their beer at the front desk and they can have one per hour.

There are no winos or public chronic inebriates in seattle, they are all housed in this shelter
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Frank
That’s a beautiful thing, brother. Harm reduction works. We didn’t have a shelter,but rather a drop in space where people could get clean supplies and be treated like human beings and eat a meal with no judgement while we were open. Counselling and referral services as well, kSince I left the field Toronto has multiple safe injection sites and most citizens understand the need. Keep up the good work ✌️
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

ElGrandeRojo
In reply to this post by Slappy
While your work is admirable, I too am from Seattle, and there are many drunks and chronic inebriated all over the city. Seattle is a shell of it's former beautiful self. Tent cities, homeless camps, and needles, and human excrement EVERYWHERE! Might need to walk around outside your area. Seattle is an ultra lib embarrassment. One of the strongest economies in the country, and turning more into a shithole daily.
ElGrandeRojo
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by canadiana
Just lost another BF/relative to end stage liver disease at 30 years too young.Man it's a horrible way to go especially when they are draining 10 litres of fluid from the enlarged belly of a 100 lb. woman.You die 1 of 3 ways usually:the toxins in the blood go to your brain and you go into a coma,you either bleed to death internally from digestive tract from burst blood vessels or you can no longer make platelets to fight infection and the slightest infection kills you.People have no idea your liver has 500 functions!It's the 3rd leading cause of death of adults between 45-65.More common than you think.It's just that people try to hide it from embarrassment (probably to avoid those comments like 'they did it to themselves' sort of like lung cancer and smoking but with more stigma because of lack of self control).
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Slappy
In reply to this post by ElGrandeRojo
Seattle is full of junkies right now.  There are 15,000 homeless in Seattle.  Mencho has the city flooded with cheap meth, heroin and Fentanyl
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

ElGrandeRojo
Seattle has become an embarrassment. The whole west coast really. LA, SF, Portland, Seattle, and even Vancouver, are terrible. The politicians, seem to turn a blind eye. It's very sad. Even the smaller towns, and rural areas are saturated with drugs.
ElGrandeRojo
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
Administrator
These are all 'port cities' on the ocean and have been bad for years.Does that mean that they are 'easier access port cities' compared to others for some reason?Maybe authorities need to ask why they are?
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Slappy
In reply to this post by ElGrandeRojo
People here are homeless because the average rent is $2500 a month.  People on Social Security are now having to live on the streets because they haven't raised it in 25 years.  Many of the homeless work.  But many many are junkies.  We house them because it's cheaper for the city.  This Coronavirus will probably wipe out 1/3 of them.

I will be going to a lot of funerals over the next year.
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Mica
In reply to this post by ElGrandeRojo
Downtown Seattle is definitely not the same city.  Progressive programs are great, but they all don’t work and when they don’t work you will never hear a progressive person say maybe that was a mistake.  Instead it’s the usual “hard line” insults.  

What happen to AA and 12 steps?  

I am in Puerto Vallarta today and had coffee with a guy from Canada who praised the program as he attended a meeting today while on vacation.  I enjoy meeting strangers and just asking them questions and letting them tell me their life story.  His words ring true for this post.  
“It’s hard work and not everyone likes hard work and fail”

Can you imagine a program for sex addicts, rapist or worse?  Where is the line drawn, because the rules change daily.
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In a nutshell Mica  ''Abstinence'' for all of the above.(It would keep everybody out of trouble).
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
Administrator
In reply to this post by canadiana
Interesting that in this article while discussing the politics of Portuguese style legalization that they say of deaths of all substance abuse that 3/4 of them are from alcohol!I'm sure it's very similar in the US too.I guess nothing new on the agenda for treating that maybe because it's a 'legal product' and like cigarettes they make huge bucks in taxes off addicted people.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/daphne-bramham-canadas-other-public-health-crisis-also-needs-urgent-attention/ar-BB10XmjM?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

Mica
It’s funny in the US people are concerned about this, but nearly 650,000 people died last year from heart disease which for the most part can be greatly reduced if not eliminated by eating healthy.  
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

PSBNY619
In reply to this post by Mica
Right on...AA works, if you want it to
In 2001 I was drinking 1.5+ liters of Vodka/day, the last 2 years was to numb the pain I had shooting through my back and out my chest like a lightning rod, the 2nd was that at age 26 (2yrs earlier) alcohol took a turn on me and without it I was in full DT'S, hallucinations, did not even know the day or my name.
As I shook and yelled and was trying to leave the hospital after being in the trauma ward for 1.5 weeks I had no clue that I had been killing myself and the pain was actually Pancreatitus that had manifested into Acute Pancreatitus and was a touch and go period where I almost did not make it several times that visit in 2001. I was clueless but lied enough to get discharged finally and back home where the outside looked great (money, women, cars, etc) but my insides were shot and I was on deaths doorstep, once again.
The Dr told me I had a 50/50 shot of death if I ever drank again, being me and an alcoholic I knew better, drank one more time 6months later and he was right and I was right back in the E.R.
Thank my HP that something finally stuck as I still remember how painful it was to drink, to not drink, to do anything those last 2 yrs was absolute misery, enough that with rehab and meetings here, abroad, whenever and wherever I attend AA meetings and have not drank since 2001.
I was on 150 flights for many years and have been to meetings all over the World and thank you to those like you who have made it easier for us travelers who sometimes need someone to talk to.
For many reasons I don't think this program in the article would have worked for me. I can only speak for myself and have been able to be free of many other substances, but alcohol and me...I know that zero alcohol for me is the only way I will be able to alive today and since what was recommended to me has worked, I do it each 24hrs over and over and try to help others regardless of how many 24hrs each of us has.
It's far from easy, quite the opposite, it sucked and sucks and I was not quite ready to stop what I was so good at for 14yrs and it would have been hell of a lot easier to just fold, but I wanted to live, and that required a plan of action for me. I was beaten down enough to have the willingness to take the advice, to take the actions necessary, and to work my program of sobriety, daily.
I'm glad people are open to new things, but sometimes you have to look in the mirror and ask if what has worked for so many others is not working because of the effort being put in, or because the silver bullet trick could be something else.
For me, I needed immediate, drastic, life saving changes in my life.
CHANGE takes ACTION...Taking ACTION requires the willingness AND the desire to want the changes to occur...PERIOD!
-PSBNY619
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Re: 1st of it's kind:alcoholic addicts are given alcohol in moderation to keep them off the streets

canadiana
Administrator
In reply to this post by canadiana
Jez what happens when they close the liquor stores and pot shops with this corona virus? In some places liquor and beer is in a separate building than the grocery store.With more and more of the economy getting shut down day by day around the world they want to keep only the necessities open like grocery,pharmacy and gas stations.I guess alcohol and pot might be considered a luxury or want rather than a need?
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